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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:27 am

The late rock legend John Lennon perhaps said it best. In his song aptly titled, “God” he states “God is a concept by which we measure our pain.” Exactly what was meant by this verse is of course a matter of interpretation. But referring to God as a “concept” is what I find particularly intriguing. Lennon goes on to mention many ideologies and icons he doesn’t “believe” in. Even The Beatles made the list. Near the end of the track he writes, “I just believe in me… and that reality.” These are profoundly insightful words from someone who clearly understood the illusions that blind and bind us. When we believe in something outside ourselves we subordinate to the authority of that belief. Somebody is in control of that belief system and it’s not you.

“So you see I have come to doubt all that I once held as true.” These are the powerful words of Paul Simon from “Kathy’s Song.” Simon goes on to say “I stand alone without beliefs— the only truth I know is you.” The songwriters of yesterday came to our poetic and philosophical rescue. Music was perhaps the last conduit for elevating the masses into a higher consciousness. We’ve since moved on to a different sound and a different message. It would seem the philosophy belongs to a bygone era of the children of World War II and the veterans of Vietnam. The music I hear today is often brooding and complex or unmercifully adolescent. It too provides a snapshot of where we are today, but offers little antidote or resolution. The new sound seems to concede to the idea that we’re already screwed. They might be right.

In the most fundamental sense, as long as we believe in an external authority then we knowingly or unknowingly yield to those who govern it. This gives power to an entity outside of you. As in the case of a religious structure, we find not only individual power but the collective power of millions. Why does this concern me? Do we trust the wisdom of those who command this power and influence? We know there is an ongoing concern about religious improprieties. Collusion with nefarious governments, horrendous inquisitions, child rape and murder and a whole host of other unspeakable atrocities should offer one some pause and reservation. Personally, I will have nothing to do with institutions that serve as agents for Divine intervention. If there is a devil— in such a house you would find him. My thoughts belong to me. I’ve not been assigned my way of thinking.


What I believe may not be what you believe and I am okay with that. In fact, I’m grateful for it. We are entitled to believe in what we want, but we should understand that beliefs are not the same as truth. Beliefs are malleable and can change over time. Truth is universal and will withstand the ages. The problem seems to be that many hold belief in the same light as truth. How did this happen?

Once surrendered to an external belief system, we’re honour-bound to serve it. In the simplest sense, that means if you call yourself a Mormon, then you must also say goodbye to coffee. That would surely spell my demise as I drink the stuff as if my life depended on it. So be it. My belief permits it. I would advise this ideology to not lecture me on matters of morality. If perhaps they are open to true enlightenment, I would suggest they close their book and open their mind. If they do, they will see how their structure is not unlike the others. Like all faiths, they preach peace and love as they march their children to war. There is such hypocrisy and deceit behind the velvet pulpits of shame.

Spirituality is also a belief system albeit a personal one. This means you’re the authority of it. You are not relinquishing your power to another. It does not suggest your belief is the right one or the only one. It does however suggest that you have found a belief that serves your needs—and that’s powerful indeed. You live with an inner-knowing and an inner-peace. You can separate yourself from the spectacle that surrounds you. From this vantage, all the rumblings of the world play out on stage. You may feel like one of the actors at times, but the spiritually aware are more attuned as observers. They may feel captivated and moved by the story, but they know it’s just a show.

Tim.
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Post by Agartha on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:49 am

Great words, Tim! And I agree with you........I was once a very religious person who used to go to church every Sunday, until finding faults in another religion made me examine mine.....and that was the day I stopped being part of any religion.

I am spiritual, so very much, and I believe that all beings have a spirit and that we are all linked........we are all connected.

But I don't need religion to tell me right from wrong....... my own morals and consciousness dictate how I should behave with others.

 Very Happy
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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:21 pm

Yup. I was raised in a religious family and the more I explored it the less I believed it. Put me offside with my family although my brother joined me later. One brother and my sister still don't speak to me because of it. Their loss not mine.

I often go down to the walnut grove and lay in my hammock and think. Any ideas that come to mind there I write down on a notepad and collate when I get back home.

Tim.
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Post by Kaere on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:31 pm

I was not raised with religion although I did explore it on my own as a young teenager, mostly for the social aspects.

When I was seven, I was concerned that my mother and I were going to hell because we didn't go to church, because of something another little girl told me. I sat in the front yard under a tree and thought and thought and thought about it and came to the conclusion that there are only a few things to worry about in this life:

"Always do your best, don't hurt anyone on purpose, and don't do murder. And you'll be okay."

That's all there is to it *shrugs*
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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:40 pm

@Kaere wrote:I was not raised with religion although I did explore it on my own as a young teenager, mostly for the social aspects.

When I was seven, I was concerned that my mother and I were going to hell because we didn't go to church, because of something another little girl told me. I sat in the front yard under a tree and thought and thought and thought about it and came to the conclusion that there are only a few things to worry about in this life:

"Always do your best, don't hurt anyone on purpose, and don't do murder. And you'll be okay."

That's all there is to it *shrugs*

Yup. Try to do good always and do no harm ever, is a good adage to live by.

Tim.
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Post by Mordae on Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:11 am

Nicely put Tim Very Happy
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Post by Rogue on Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:29 am


@Rockhopper wrote:Try to do good always and do no harm ever

No matter what we each believe in, if we could just follow that simple rule, then the world would be a better place.
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Post by Stargate on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:23 pm

@Rockhopper wrote:The late rock legend John Lennon perhaps said it best. In his song aptly titled, “God” he states “God is a concept by which we measure our pain.” Exactly what was meant by this verse is of course a matter of interpretation. But referring to God as a “concept” is what I find particularly intriguing. Lennon goes on to mention many ideologies and icons he doesn’t “believe” in. Even The Beatles made the list. Near the end of the track he writes, “I just believe in me… and that reality.” These are profoundly insightful words from someone who clearly understood the illusions that blind and bind us. When we believe in something outside ourselves we subordinate to the authority of that belief. Somebody is in control of that belief system and it’s not you.

“So you see I have come to doubt all that I once held as true.” These are the powerful words of Paul Simon from “Kathy’s Song.” Simon goes on to say “I stand alone without beliefs— the only truth I know is you.” The songwriters of yesterday came to our poetic and philosophical rescue. Music was perhaps the last conduit for elevating the masses into a higher consciousness. We’ve since moved on to a different sound and a different message. It would seem the philosophy belongs to a bygone era of the children of World War II and the veterans of Vietnam. The music I hear today is often brooding and complex or unmercifully adolescent. It too provides a snapshot of where we are today, but offers little antidote or resolution. The new sound seems to concede to the idea that we’re already screwed. They might be right.

In the most fundamental sense, as long as we believe in an external authority then we knowingly or unknowingly yield to those who govern it. This gives power to an entity outside of you. As in the case of a religious structure, we find not only individual power but the collective power of millions. Why does this concern me? Do we trust the wisdom of those who command this power and influence? We know there is an ongoing concern about religious improprieties. Collusion with nefarious governments, horrendous inquisitions, child rape and murder and a whole host of other unspeakable atrocities should offer one some pause and reservation. Personally, I will have nothing to do with institutions that serve as agents for Divine intervention. If there is a devil— in such a house you would find him. My thoughts belong to me. I’ve not been assigned my way of thinking.


What I believe may not be what you believe and I am okay with that. In fact, I’m grateful for it. We are entitled to believe in what we want, but we should understand that beliefs are not the same as truth. Beliefs are malleable and can change over time. Truth is universal and will withstand the ages. The problem seems to be that many hold belief in the same light as truth. How did this happen?

Once surrendered to an external belief system, we’re honour-bound to serve it. In the simplest sense, that means if you call yourself a Mormon, then you must also say goodbye to coffee. That would surely spell my demise as I drink the stuff as if my life depended on it. So be it. My belief permits it. I would advise this ideology to not lecture me on matters of morality. If perhaps they are open to true enlightenment, I would suggest they close their book and open their mind. If they do, they will see how their structure is not unlike the others. Like all faiths, they preach peace and love as they march their children to war. There is such hypocrisy and deceit behind the velvet pulpits of shame.

Spirituality is also a belief system albeit a personal one. This means you’re the authority of it. You are not relinquishing your power to another. It does not suggest your belief is the right one or the only one. It does however suggest that you have found a belief that serves your needs—and that’s powerful indeed. You live with an inner-knowing and an inner-peace. You can separate yourself from the spectacle that surrounds you. From this vantage, all the rumblings of the world play out on stage. You may feel like one of the actors at times, but the spiritually aware are more attuned as observers. They may feel captivated and moved by the story, but they know it’s just a show.

Tim.

I really, really like what you you say here Tim. I am convinced that God and the devil are like two pea in a pod. I create the one and the other appears. My belief in self is my religion, I really have noting else to rely on. People create different things for different reasons and it works for them, or they would not create it. So in my humble opinion, everyone to their own understanding.

I really love the way you approached the topic.

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:18 pm

Why are the great cathedrals shaped into a cross on the terrestrial plane?

The Concept of Religion... Bird

How was the dome that crowns Florence’s great cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore—the Duomo built without wooden substructures?

The Concept of Religion... Basilica-di-Santa-Maria-del-Fiore

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Post by Agartha on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:16 pm

vision-master wrote:

How was the dome that crowns Florence’s great cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore—the Duomo built without wooden substructures?

Brunelleschi was a genius.....that's how the dome is amazing!!

 Brunelleschi planned the dome to have the shape of a melon or football. Obviously, he understood that the pointed arch directs its thrusts more downward than outward (in comparison with the round arch) and this permitted him to use the octagonal drum to its greatest advantage. He strengthened the drum by adding "chains" or wooden beams linked together with iron connectors to act like a belt around the drum. This would further balance outward thrusts. The dome was also lightened and strengthened by being built with a masonry frame of vertical and horizontal ribs covered by thin inner and outer shells.

His dome would consist of two concentric shells, an inner one visible from within the cathedral nested inside a wider, taller external dome. To counteract “hoop stress,” the outward, bulging pressure created by a large structure’s weight that could cause it to crack or collapse, he would bind the walls with tension rings of stone, iron, and wood, like hoops on a barrel. He’d build the first 46 feet in stone, he said, after which he would continue with lighter materials, either spugna or brick. He also assured the overseers that he could do without conventional, ground-based scaffolding. They welcomed the enormous savings in lumber and labor that would result, at least during work on the first 57 feet, after which everything would depend on how things went, “because in building, only practical experience will teach that which is to be followed.”

The first problem to be solved was purely technical: No known lifting mechanisms were capable of raising and maneuvering the enormously heavy materials he had to work with, including sandstone beams, so far off the ground. Here Brunelleschi the clockmaker and tinkerer outdid himself. He invented a three-speed hoist with an intricate system of gears, pulleys, screws, and driveshafts, powered by a single yoke of oxen turning a wooden tiller. It used a special rope 600 feet long and weighing over a thousand pounds—custom-made by shipwrights in Pisa—and featured a groundbreaking clutch system that could reverse direction without having to turn the oxen around. Later Brunelleschi made other innovative lifting machines, including the castello, a 65-foot-tall crane with a series of counterweights and hand screws to move loads laterally once they’d been raised to the right height. Brunelleschi’s lifts were so far ahead of their time that they weren’t rivaled until the industrial revolution, though they did fascinate generations of artists and inventors, including a certain Leonardo from the nearby Tuscan town of Vinci, whose sketchbooks tell us how they were made.


http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2014/02/il-duomo/mueller-text
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Building the flower

NARRATOR
By making sure that the small wooden centrings were correctly aligned, the profile of the dome could be traced in stages. Some experts had suggested similar devices before, but Massimo knew he was still only just beginning to understand Brunelleschi's system. The wooden centring didn't explain how the complicated pattern of bricks could fill the spaces between the corners of the dome.

And the angle of these bricks was critical. Too flat, and the geometry wouldn't work - too steep and the bricks would fall before the mortar had set. There had to be something more. At last Massimo discovered Brunelleschi's secret. The most important invention of the dome.

MASSIMO RICCI
After about fifteen years, I managed to build the flower and from that moment on it was all a… well, a continuous discovery.

NARRATOR
A flower! Massimo believes that Brunelleschi drew a pattern of petals where the dome was to spring from the tops of the cathedral walls base of the dome. This precise mathematical form then became a key to position every single brick in the construction.
Its brilliant in its simplicity.

MASSIMO RICCI
It has taken twenty years of my life to discover this simple metal flower which solves the dome's construction problems. This is the real secret of the dome of Santa Maria del Fiore.

This simple metal flower, which allows such perfect orientation, as you can see, of all these difficult bricks we have here.
This simple wire enables the bricklayers to place them so perfectly.
There would have been no other way of doing it.


http://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/history/history-science-technology-and-medicine/history-technology/riddle-the-dome-transcript

See the outline of a flower?

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Post by Agartha on Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:51 pm

Nice!! He was a genius indeed......... very proud of my Italian heritage right now!!   Wink 

lol
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:32 pm

Yes, his genius was a gift from GOD!

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Post by Agartha on Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:21 am

vision-master wrote:Yes, his genius was a gift from GOD!

Ok.......if we are to believe his genius was a gift from God, can you please explain to me a few things:

Why does god give gifts only to some?
If the 'gifts' are from God, who are horrible things from?

My cousin was a lovely woman who got an aggressive cancer that killed her slowly and painfully...
Why didn't god give her the gift of a healthy body?

My friend's son was born with cerebral palsy, that occurred when he was a foetus...
Why didn't God give him a genius healthy brain like Brunelleschi's??
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Post by Rockhopper on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:08 am

Good points Ags and that is the main reason I stopped believing in the big fella.

If there is such a benign and kindly bloke up there why is there so much suffering in the world? Why are there no miracles happening now? Why do people starve to death when the big fella can click his fingers and there is food for all? The questions are never ending.

No, a belief in a Big Man in the sky is a waste of time and energy for me and I have better things to do with my time.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:06 am

Yeah, no such thing as 'the big fella', that's childhood thinking.

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Post by Agartha on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:21 am

vision-master wrote:Yeah, no such thing as 'the big fella', that's childhood thinking.

Fair enough, but whatever concept you have for your God,my questions still stand.

 Very Happy
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:27 am

@Agartha wrote:
vision-master wrote:Yes, his genius was a gift from GOD!

Ok.......if we are to believe his genius was a gift from God, can you please explain to me a few things:

Why does god give gifts only to some?
If the 'gifts' are from God, who are horrible things from?

My cousin was a lovely woman who got an aggressive cancer that killed her slowly and painfully...
Why didn't god give her the gift of a healthy body?

My friend's son was born with cerebral palsy, that occurred when he was a foetus...
Why didn't God give him a genius healthy brain like Brunelleschi's??

Your time is coming as it is for all of us. That's just the way it is. Like Jim Morrison said, 'No one gets out of here alive'.

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Post by Agartha on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:32 am

vision-master wrote:
Your time is coming as it is for all of us. That's just the way it is. Like Jim Morrison said, 'No one gets out of here alive'.

Ok, fine....we can agree on that but my question is:

If God gives gifts, why is he only good to some and not all?
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:34 am

@Agartha wrote:
vision-master wrote:
Your time is coming as it is for all of us. That's just the way it is. Like Jim Morrison said, 'No one gets out of here alive'.

Ok, fine....we can agree on that but my question is:

If God gives gifts, why is he only good to some and not all?

We all have been given gifts.

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