Scotland, the Brave

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Post by Kaere on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:55 am

I think the 75% would apply to both sides as well, wouldn't it? That there would have to be at least 75% Yes or 75% No. 50% seems a little bit too... neutral, almost like they cancel each other out. Am I saying this right?
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Post by Kaere on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:59 am

I also wonder... would Scotland remain a part of the commonwealth? Would they have to give up all British Citizenship or would they be dual citizens? It's quite interesting for me as I can see it more objectively as opposed to it being my country about to be torn apart, which makes anyone a bit emotional imo.
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Post by Rogue on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:03 am


I think in Scotlands case it is probably simply a case of 50% as its not like a case of seceding.
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Post by Kaere on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:05 am

Hmmm... okay yeah, I see.
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Post by Rogue on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:05 am

Would it be the same as Canada and the Commonwealth?
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Post by Kaere on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:13 am

See, I dunno if it's an automatic thing or if you have to apply. I know some countries have been expelled from the Commonwealth before so.... I know that they'll have to reapply to NATO and the EU if they want to continue to be a part of those organizations.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:15 am

@Agartha wrote:We'll just have to see what happens tomorrow..... I personally think people will vote for No... but I'm ready for VM's reaction to my 'prediction' if Yes wins!
hahahaha

hahahaha

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Post by IceWendigo on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:26 am

I hope they will choose not to be part of NATO or the EU. As for the Common Wealth I dont think it make much of a difference either way.
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Post by Kaere on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:43 am

I'm not sure about all the benefits extended to members of the Commonwealth but I think ease of imports/exports is a big one and of course the ease of travel, immigration, etc. Imports/exports/trade deals would have the bigger impact, of course. Not sure just now of what else comes along with it.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:59 am

Imports/exports/trade deals wrote:

These are controlled by the Law of the Sea. All trade items are SHIPPED, even if flown!

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:07 am


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Post by IceWendigo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:17 am

III wrote:


Good video once again

"A 'No' would mean change" = lol sure it would (most unlikely)

IMO, "Voting" for pre-selected aristocratic "representatives" that then do whatever they want and usually do the bidding of those that PAY for their campaign against the public good in secret or against the public will when its not, is NOT "Democracy", the word has been usurped. Democracy is the citizens in charge and voting for the laws. The Athenians which (despite injustices that were prevalent in their epoch) had a functional Democracy were using sortition, short term non-professional randomly drawn citizens (like juries) in positions of revocable responsibility with oversight and safeguards to make sure the people working for the public would not act against the public interest and would have virtually no power over the citizens.    


This might be strange for people that believe in mainstream lies, but Imo, Cameron (Like Obama and Hollande) is a liar and a war criminal, as are the mainstream Media that lied about Libya, and lie again and again (both completely fabricated false reports and lies by omissions by omitting the facts that would prove the deceptive narrative the government and media are telling the people is utterly false).




Last edited by IceWendigo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Agartha on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:17 pm

This is how Europe would look if all regions that want to be independent, will (not big enough but if you click on the link, you can see it full view):

Scotland, the Brave - Page 4 Separatistsmap_zps4b357a22

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758795/Europe-divided-Map-shows-continent-look-separatist-movement-got-wish.html
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Post by Kaere on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:23 pm

Hmmm... get rid of the idea of nations and borders and maybe it's a good way forward. I still can't see how it can all work without slipping back into the same old problems. Populations move around, what if enough newbies show up to an area and they decide they want to change things up and because of a majority, they can... then what happens to the wants/desires of the original population? Do they have to leave the area to find a new place that is more agreeable or what? (yes, I'm thinking about native populations in the past but this can also apply to modern times).
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Post by IceWendigo on Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:04 pm

"get rid of the idea of nations and borders"

Imo Nations are a cultural construct which evolves over time, imo theres no need to get rid of it any more than a need to get rid of folk music or Shepard pie recipes, few people say I am a proud Visigoth, imo there's nothing wrong with moderate cultural nationalism. (Which to me is not the exaggerated emotional fixation of who wins or looses in sports teams in international events)

You do need borders in the present stage of development of human civilization the same way cells in your body need a membrane to filter/soften exchanges with the environment, imo you should not have massive immigration of people with different values or unable to integrate the local society (and some high levels of immigration can be disruptive even when values are compatible). Imo a region/culture needs to evolve gradually over time, not be made extinct by colonizing/immigration of people with incompatible values. You also need boarders to delimit where laws apply, imo pan continental countries are too big for optimal representation since smaller sized political units potentially offer a greater variety of options.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:45 pm

May I add some interesting tidbit.......

As further evidence, not that any is needed, a percentage of

taxes that are paid are to enrich the king/queen of England.  For

those that study Title 26 you will recognize IMF, which means

Individual Master File, all tax payers have one.  To read one you

have to be able to break their codes using file 6209, which is

about 467 pages.  On your IMF you will find a blocking series,

which tells you what type of tax you are paying.  You will probably

find a 300-399 blocking series, which 6209 says is reserved.  You

then look up the BMF 300-399, which is the Business Master File in

6209.  You would have seen prior to 1991, this was U.S.-U.K. Tax

Claims, non-refile DLN.  Meaning everyone is considered a business

and involved in commerce and you are being held liable for a tax

via a treaty between the U.S. and the U.K., payable to the U.K..

The form that is supposed to be used for this is form 8288, FIRPTA

- Foreign Investment Real Property Tax Account, you won't find many

people using this form, just the 1040 form.  The 8288 form can be

found in the Law Enforcement Manual of the IRS, chapter 3.  If you

will check the OMB's paper - Office of Management and Budget, in

the Department of Treasury, List of Active Information Collections,



Approved Under Paperwork Reduction Act, you will find this form

under OMB number 1545-0902, which says U.S. withholding tax-return

for dispositions by foreign persons of U.S. real property

interests-statement of withholding on dispositions, by foreign

persons, of U.S. Form #8288 #8288a

     These codes have since been changed to read as follows; IMF

300-309, Barred Assement, CP 55 generated valid for MFT-30, which

is the code for 1040 form.  IMF 310-399 reserved, the BMF 300-309

reads the same as IMF 300-309.  BMF 390-399 reads U.S./U.K. Tax

Treaty Claims.  The long and short of it is nothing changed, the

government just made it plainer, the 1040 is the payment of a

foreign tax to the king/queen of England.  We have been in

financial servitude since the Treaty of 1783.


http://www.apfn.org/apfn/bcolony.htm

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Post by Stirky on Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:00 pm

It always makes me laugh when people mention Cornwall being independent, lol! It never will, they'd never survive. Plus they are not a separate country like Scotland and Wales, just a region. But Cornish people are proud to be Cornish, they like to display their flag etc. But it would not work if they were independent.
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Post by Kaere on Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:16 pm

@IceWendigo wrote:"get rid of the idea of nations and borders"

Imo Nations are a cultural construct which evolves over time, imo theres no need to get rid of it any more than a need to get rid of folk music or Shepard pie recipes, few people say I am a proud Visigoth, imo there's nothing wrong with moderate cultural nationalism. (Which to me is not the exaggerated emotional fixation of who wins or looses in sports teams in international events)

You do need borders in the present stage of development of human civilization the same way cells in your body need a membrane to filter/soften exchanges with the environment, imo you should not have massive immigration of people with different values or unable to integrate the local society (and some high levels of immigration can be disruptive even when values are compatible). Imo a region/culture needs to evolve gradually over time, not be made extinct by colonizing/immigration of people with incompatible values. You also need boarders to delimit where laws apply, imo pan continental countries are too big for optimal representation since smaller sized political units potentially offer a greater variety of options.

That does lead to the "insular" thing that I spoke about a few days ago... in keeping others out (no immigration), you also keep yourself in. Do you not feel that could lead to stagnation?

In some forms of philosophy, it is seen that any act of separation against another is considered an act of aggression (Krishnamurti in particular speaks this as a truth). Can we accept and be at peace with our own selves if at the same time we are unable to accept and be at peace with others?

I wonder if the two worlds (spiritual and material) will ever be able to come to an understanding.

I do apologize for only addressing parts of this discussion, I do not feel comfortable enough with the subject matter to be all encompassing. Mostly I'm just thinking out loud.

Aside from all that! I wonder about the whole desire for separation for Scotland. For example, some Quebeckers consider Quebec to be a stand alone Nation in it's own right (by virtue of it's 'distinct society'). I can understand where they're coming from. Scotland, not so much. I can't believe it's a hatred of the English at this point in time... so what's really fuelling it? What do they want that they are not getting and is it really worth all the potential upheaval? Is it more about what their Yes camp leader wants? I read this article about him today, thought it was interesting...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/what-scotland-independence-crusader-alex-salmond-learned-from-quebec-1.2766564
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Post by Agartha on Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:36 am

@Kaere wrote:
That does lead to the "insular" thing that I spoke about a few days ago... in keeping others out (no immigration), you also keep yourself in. Do you not feel that could lead to stagnation?

I agree 1000% with you on this... funny enough an independent Scotland has promised to allow aprox. 25000 immigrants every year to the country, so the far right Scottish that are right now voting for yes to keep Scotland independent and only for the Scottish, are actually voting for more immigration and foreigners to their country.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:16 am


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