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Post by Rockhopper on Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:51 pm

Artwork in an Indonesian cave has been found to date back at least 40,000 years, making it the oldest sign yet of human creative art — likely pre-dating art from European caves.

The findings, published on 8 October in Nature1, undermine a Eurocentric view of the origins of human creativity and could prompt a ‘gold rush’ to find even older art on the route of human migration from Africa to the east.

The analysis hints at “just what a wealth of undiscovered information there is in Asia”, says Alistair Pike, an archaeologist at the University of Southampton, UK, who in 2013 identified what had been considered the world’s oldest cave art, in Europe2, and had no involvement in the current project. “This paper will likely prompt a hunt.”

The Indonesian images, discovered in a limestone cave on the island of Sulawesi in the 1950s, had previously been thought to date back only 10,000 years. Anything older would, it was assumed, have deteriorated.

Even after a technology that could test that assumption, uranium-thorium dating, became available, no one thought to apply it to the Indonesian cave — until now. Though the paint itself cannot be dated, uranium-thorium dating can estimate the age of the bumpy layers of calcium carbonate (known as ‘cave popcorn’) that formed on the surface of the paintings. As mineral layers are deposited, they draw in uranium. Because uranium decays into thorium at a known rate, the ratio of uranium to thorium isotopes in a sample indicates how old it is.

From Here.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:48 pm

World's Oldest Artwork... 1379537051-gobekli+tepe+11

Each T-shaped pillar varies between 40 to 60 tonnes (12,000 years old).

The imposing stratigraphy of Göbekli Tepe attests to many centuries of activity, beginning at least as early as the epipaleolithic period. Structures identified with the succeeding period, Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), have been dated to the 10th millennium BCE. Remains of smaller buildings identified as Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) and dating from the 9th millennium BCE have also been unearthed.

A number of radiocarbon dates have been published. They are reproduced below with one standard deviation errors, calibrated to the BCE:

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:49 pm

Rock you are WRONG! Ancient pre-history people were advanced, not stone age. Quit spewing nonsense!

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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:19 am

VM mate, you're getting tiresome, lay off the personal attacks!

I don't give a monkey's toss what you believe, I live in the real world.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:14 am

WRONG!!!!

Art from caves, can't you do better than that?

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Post by Agartha on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:34 am

III wrote:Rock you are WRONG! Ancient pre-history people were advanced, not stone age. Quit spewing nonsense!

Good grief what is it with you today??? Can't you discuss in a civilised manner?

The caves' art in Tim's article are 40000 years old. Yours is 12000. 40000 is older than 12000.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:37 am

We don't know hardly anything about human civilization 40,000 years ago, what is wrong with you!!! For all we know the great pyramids are that old.

Just because you BELIEVE we lived as primitive stone age people, I do not. More white mans tales.

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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:43 am

You are the one who asserts that our ancestors were dumb stone age people VM. According to your hypothesis our ancestors were incapable of working things out for themselves without some intervention by aliens.

There are many ways of working out how old something is by using natural constants. I suggest that you go and find out how it's done.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:53 am

BUNK, you have been watching to many Ancient Alien shows.

FYI: Brien Forester doesn't buy the Ancient Aliens either.

Start paying attention to my posts and quit postulating what I actually say.

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:56 am

You are the one who asserts that our ancestors were dumb stone age people VM. According to your hypothesis our ancestors were incapable of working things out for themselves without some intervention by aliens.

There are many ways of working out how old something is by using natural constants. I suggest that you go and find out how it's done.


Furthermore Dr. Rockhead, you can't date how old a structure is by examining old bones around the site, that's a hideous conclusion.

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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:12 am

Furthermore Dr. Rockhead, you can't date how old a structure is by examining old bones around the site, that's a hideous conclusion.

Oh dear personal attacks again VM. Can't you have a reasonable conversation without insults mate? Your comments are just childish!

No-one said that dating is just "Old Bones". It just shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:19 am

@Rockhopper wrote:
Furthermore Dr. Rockhead, you can't date how old a structure is by examining old bones around the site, that's a hideous conclusion.

Oh dear personal attacks again VM. Can't you have a reasonable conversation without insults mate? Your comments are just childish!

No-one said that dating is just "Old Bones". It just shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

Tim.

What, you date the stones? You really are a piece of work. Laughing

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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:51 am

There you go again VM. You just can't help yourself!

Insults are childish!

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:59 am

@Rockhopper wrote:There you go again VM. You just can't help yourself!

Insults are childish!

Tim.

How do you date stones Dr. Rockhead?

Insults are what you thrive on. Very Happy

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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:46 am

III wrote:How do you date stones Dr. Rockhead?

Insults are what you thrive on. Very Happy

Ad hominem again. You're getting repetitive VM. Time to change the record.

Go and find out for yourself I'm not your nursemaid. Are you capable of searching out how it is done?

Where is your evidence that intervention took place Dr. Bloody Expert? So far -- NOTHING!!! Just endless personal attacks.

I stated that a VIROLOGIST IS NOT A CLIMATOLOGIST and you responded by calling me names, gosh, really intelligent that is!

I am glad I have a high sided chair here or I would fall onto the floor laughing at what you post.

Grow up or go away.

Tim.
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Post by Kaere on Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:22 am

I think now is the time for both of you to ignore each other.
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Post by Rockhopper on Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:25 am

Yep I agree.

I put up with his insults for a long time but I simply couldn't any longer, there's a limit.

I'll carry on posting anything I think is of interest to most of the members here.

Tim.
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Post by Agartha on Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:39 pm

Just carry on as normal, Tim..... VM is upset with himself and lashing out at all of us, once again.

I hope you feel better soon, VM... and happier.
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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:50 am

Yep Ags. He's left again. He'll be back he enjoys the cut and thrust of it all.

I just wish he would stay away from personal insults, they don't do his side any favours.

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