Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

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Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:38 pm


"The Sumerians always referred to their gods in a multiple sense and never with upper case emphasis. They wrote about those gods in matter-of-fact terms, describing them as flesh-and-blood beings with whom they could have sex and produce hybrid offspring. Modern humans have 46 chromosomes, whereas our supposed closest relatives, chimps and the other higher primates, have 48. Intervention theorists suggest that this difference is a direct result of these Sumerian "gods" (aliens) tinkering with our DNA and breeding with us, adding many elements of their own DNA to ours."

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Agartha on Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:11 am

The Denisovans and Neandarthals had 23 pairs of chromosomes like us which shows we all came from a same ancestor and not what the interventionists believe, that Neandarthal were 'modified' to make them into 'us'.

This fusions happen all over the animal world and it's also still happening today: a man in China has 22 pairs of chromosomes! In a few millennia he could create his own sub-species of Homo sapiens! (http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news124)

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Rockhopper on Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:42 am

Like Ags says, chromosome fusions happen in all animal groups including humans.

There is no evidence of any kind that show any intervention by an outside entity influencing the development of humans in our history.  Intervention theory is a variant on Creationism.

Tim.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:18 am

@Rockhopper wrote:Like Ags says, chromosome fusions happen in all animal groups including humans.

There is no evidence of any kind that show any intervention by an outside entity influencing the development of humans in our history.  Intervention theory is a variant on Creationism.

Tim.

So we don't create new types of hybrid grains, we just let them evolve?

http://www.seedquest.com/news.php?type=news&id_article=27771&id_region=&id_category=

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:26 am



Our research indicates that the text of the Hebrew Bible neither supports the monotheistic claims of Rabbinic Judaism nor the Trinitarian claims of many sects of Christianity.  Instead, it reveals a history of transition from a world of many "elohims" to the ultimate dominance of Yahweh the elohim of Israel.


1 swarm the waters of their kind and let every wing flyer
2 of their kind.  An ELOHIYM saw that it was pleasing to the sight.  An ELOHIYM blessed them
3 saying, "Bear fruit!  Increase!  Fill the waters  
4 in the seas!"  And the flyer, "Increase in the /ERETz!"  It was evening
5 it was morning Day Five.
6 An ELOHIYM said, "Let the /ERETz cause to bring forth a living soul
7 of her kind, a large four-footed animal, a small moving animal, a wild animal of /ERETz of her kind.
8 And it was so.  ELOHIYM made a wild animal



1 the /ERETz of her kind the large four-footed animal of her kind, and every  
2 small moving animal of the /ADAMAH of her kind.  An ELOHIYM saw that it was pleasing to the sight.
3 An ELOHIYM said, "Let us make a man in our image, like our likeness.
4 Let them have dominion with a fish of the sea, and with a flyer of the ShAMAYIM
5 and with the large four-footed animal and with all the /ERETz and with every small moving animal
6 moving upon the /ERETz.  ELOHIYM formed the man
7 in his image, in his image ELOHIYM formed him male and female
8 he formed them.  ELOHIYM blessed them ELOHIYM said  



http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/GS/gs-01-08.htm
It is our position that any person honestly and sincerely seeking spiritual truths will value and incorporate new factual information into his or her existing Belief System in order to make sure that it is as accurate as possible.  The Biblical Heritage Center, Inc. is not a religious organization and therefore does not have a doctrinal statement or a statement of faith.  BHC is an educational and research organization and the only guideline that we urge people to accept is:

The mission of the Biblical Heritage Center is to help people and to engage the help of people in the quest for and discovery of spiritual truth and of moral and ethical guidelines for living in a multicultural and pluralistic world by providing information and activities based on the Bible and biblical traditions in an environment conducive to open and honest dialogue.  The activities include discussing factual information about the Bible and biblical traditions, studying the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible, reaching conclusions about the meanings of the texts, and considering the applicability of these conclusions to life.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Agartha on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:20 am

▓ wrote:
@Rockhopper wrote:Like Ags says, chromosome fusions happen in all animal groups including humans.

There is no evidence of any kind that show any intervention by an outside entity influencing the development of humans in our history.  Intervention theory is a variant on Creationism.

Tim.

So we don't create new types of hybrid grains, we just let them evolve?

http://www.seedquest.com/news.php?type=news&id_article=27771&id_region=&id_category=

No, VM, that's different, we were referring to the video on your OP which talks about human origins. Our responses were to human origins and more specifically chromosomes.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:05 pm

@Agartha wrote:
▓ wrote:
@Rockhopper wrote:Like Ags says, chromosome fusions happen in all animal groups including humans.

There is no evidence of any kind that show any intervention by an outside entity influencing the development of humans in our history.  Intervention theory is a variant on Creationism.

Tim.

So we don't create new types of hybrid grains, we just let them evolve?

http://www.seedquest.com/news.php?type=news&id_article=27771&id_region=&id_category=

No, VM, that's different, we were referring to the video on your OP which talks about human origins. Our responses were to human origins and more specifically chromosomes.

Makes no difference, since when are 'we' any different than grains of sand.

Aboriginal spirituality is defined as at the core of Aboriginal being, their very identity. It gives meaning to all aspects of life including relationships with one another and the environment. All objects are living and share the same soul and spirit as Aboriginals.



http://www.academia.edu/670279/Aboriginal_spirituality_Aboriginal_philosophy_the_basis_of_Aboriginal_social_and_emotional_wellbeing

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Lenzabi on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:52 pm

Neanderthals were not modified, but evidence shows that they wound up mating more with the modern men, and thus, present day humans can show mixed traits of the blending of genes. Present Humans are the result of the earlier humans inter marrying and the others wound up outbred and replaced by the present model.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Agartha on Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:21 pm

▓ wrote:
Makes no difference, since when are 'we' any different than grains of sand.

No, you don't understand what I am trying to say. We are not talking abut modern humans modifying crops. We were talking abut the origins of modern men and that has no intervention whatsoever.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Rockhopper on Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:34 pm

Yes Len. There are a number of factors in the demise of the Neanderthals, Sapiens outbred them, they intermixed with Sapiens, they weren't as adapted to the cold of the Ice Age as Sapiens and we know that they had some physical things that made them less adaptable at the time. Their shoulders had a different structure (but still Primate) to Sapiens and because of that they could not throw a spear with the same force that a Sapiens could. They relied on short stabbing spears which meant that they had to get very close to their prey and serious injuries were common. 

Sapiens had evolved a better shoulder (Mutation?) for throwing spears, so probably the Neanderthals couldn't compete for food either. Less serious injuries -- better survival. Another point that we know about the Neanderthals is that they lived in relatively small family groups of less than a dozen people, Sapiens lived in much larger groups (50 or more) which allows better hunting and protection from predators. 

Early Humans, as they do today, pick out specific mutations in plants and animals that are beneficial to them and develop that further. Normally in the wild horses and donkeys would not interbreed as they are too far apart both genetically and geographically to do so.  But we can force a cross breed animal, a mule/jenny but that can not breed any further for specific uses. The same applies to plants, a hybrid plant is a cross between the domesticated version and it's wild ancestor to give the progeny an advantage from both.

As I have pointed out repeatedly before; there is no indication at all that there was any outside interference in Human development over time! Until there is such ideas will remain out on the fringe.

Tim.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:16 pm

@Agartha wrote:
▓ wrote:
Makes no difference, since when are 'we' any different than grains of sand.

No, you don't understand what I am trying to say. We are not talking abut modern humans modifying crops. We were talking abut the origins of modern men and that has no intervention whatsoever.

Unproven.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:16 pm

As I have pointed out repeatedly before; there is no indication at all that there was any outside interference in Human development over time! Until there is such ideas will remain out on the fringe.

Unproven.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Lenzabi on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:47 pm

@Rockhopper wrote:Yes Len. There are a number of factors in the demise of the Neanderthals, Sapiens outbred them, they intermixed with Sapiens, they weren't as adapted to the cold of the Ice Age as Sapiens and we know that they had some physical things that made them less adaptable at the time. Their shoulders had a different structure (but still Primate) to Sapiens and because of that they could not throw a spear with the same force that a Sapiens could. They relied on short stabbing spears which meant that they had to get very close to their prey and serious injuries were common. 

Sapiens had evolved a better shoulder (Mutation?) for throwing spears, so probably the Neanderthals couldn't compete for food either. Less serious injuries -- better survival. Another point that we know about the Neanderthals is that they lived in relatively small family groups of less than a dozen people, Sapiens lived in much larger groups (50 or more) which allows better hunting and protection from predators. 

Early Humans, as they do today, pick out specific mutations in plants and animals that are beneficial to them and develop that further. Normally in the wild horses and donkeys would not interbreed as they are too far apart both genetically and geographically to do so.  But we can force a cross breed animal, a mule/jenny but that can not breed any further for specific uses. The same applies to plants, a hybrid plant is a cross between the domesticated version and it's wild ancestor to give the progeny an advantage from both.

As I have pointed out repeatedly before; there is no indication at all that there was any outside interference in Human development over time! Until there is such ideas will remain out on the fringe.

Tim.

Actually they were able to run around in colder climates and retained heat well, of course the 9k calorie diet they ate was also part of it, but I have Neanderthal traits that are potently there. I don't throw as well as others, but i could do well with shot puts/grenades, and a bow, I think the inter breeding was a good exchange cold adaptability for many present day peoples, and more flexible bodies for the rest. basically the good traits for the most part of each sub type mixed together makes for some good qualities, but also, there are some negative traits that occur. My Neanderthal like legs are muscular and massive, but not good for high speed long range runs, I discovered this in basic training, but the slower, chop run "airborne shuffle" I could do with great ability, so a more endurance kind of run not a fast run. My platoon mates could do the fast run better than I. I overheat easily in warmer climates and I need a decent 40-60 degrees to stay cool enough while working outdoors, or so I used to. I think Neanderthals and "moderns" agreed to make a new kind of human via intermarriage ad breeding. Technically it also means "moderns' are also long gone as both are now what we call present day Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:36 pm

Why do you only talk about physical qualities?

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Rockhopper on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:13 pm

Because DNA is physical Little Green Rectangle.

Could you please show us anything physical the indicates that there was intervention by some-one or something in the development of Humans? Not info from a weird fringe site but something tangible. 

Not talking about mythology but something physical. If there was such a thing we would have found it by now amongst all the data and material we have on Human development.

Ah the "Airbourne Shuffle" now that brings back memories Len!  Cool

I really don't think that there was a defined and deliberate cross breeding done by either the Neanderthals and the Sapiens. It just happened over time but I could be wrong.

Tim.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Agartha on Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:25 am

▓ wrote:

No, you don't understand what I am trying to say. We are not talking abut modern humans modifying crops. We were talking abut the origins of modern men and that has no intervention whatsoever.

Unproven.

Who modified the Chinese man's DNA then? How did he end up with 44 chromosomes? The only answer is: natural mutations.
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Lenzabi on Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:37 am

Ah the "Airbourne Shuffle" now that brings back memories Len! Cool

I really don't think that there was a defined and deliberate cross breeding done by either the Neanderthals and the Sapiens. It just happened over time but I could be wrong.


Yeah, I could do it no problem, the guys with Cro-Mag legs could not, it hurt them to use that stride, my legs are 0.75 meter, while they had closer to full 1meter length legs.

Hard to say if it was deliberate, just happened, or a mix depending on what tribes did what.

I would think that for some alien intervention, some sort of artificial sequences would have to be found.

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:57 am

@Agartha wrote:
▓ wrote:

No, you don't understand what I am trying to say. We are not talking abut modern humans modifying crops. We were talking abut the origins of modern men and that has no intervention whatsoever.

Unproven.

Who modified the Chinese man's DNA then? How did he end up with 44 chromosomes? The only answer is: natural mutations.

Never assume one answer is right, the only one, the truth, the way......

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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Agartha on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:43 am

▓ wrote:
Never assume one answer is right, the only one, the truth, the way......

True, but it works both ways, eh?

Let's make a list of possible answers then, I say natural mutation, what do you say?
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Re: Human Origins and Biblical misrepresentations

Post by Rockhopper on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:45 pm

@Lenzabi wrote:

I would think that for some alien intervention, some sort of artificial sequences would have to be found.

Yeah my point exactly. There would also be some physical indication of the visit too and there is none so far. There is a huge cluster of fossils and data that has been collected over the last two hundred years yet there is nothing found so far that shows intervention.

Tim.
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