The ten dogmas of science

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:58 pm

Everything is mechanical; only mechanistic explanations will do.

Matter is unconscious / inanimate.

The matter and energy of the universe is constant, and has remained constant since the Big Bang.

The laws of nature are fixed.

Nature is without inherent purpose, and evolution has no goal.

Biological inheritance is a purely material process.

Minds are located within heads, and are nothing but the activities of brains.

Memories are stored in the brain, and are wiped out at death.

Telepathy and other psychic phenomena are illusory.

Mechanistic medicine is the only kind that works.


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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:49 pm

How about we start with this ONE.

Minds are located within heads, and are nothing but the activities of brains.

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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:58 am

This Rupert Sheldrake:

Rupert Sheldrake is an English former scientist who, since the 1980s, has preferred to spend much of his time promoting his own bizarre pet pseudoscientific new age theory of everything called "morphic resonance". Sheldrake believes that "memory is inherent in nature" and that "natural systems, such as termite colonies, or pigeons, or orchid plants, or insulin molecules, inherit a collective memory from all previous things of their kind." and that this "morphic resonance" is also responsible for "telepathy-type interconnections between organisms". Unsurprisingly, nobody in science takes Sheldrake seriously. However, he has written several books targeted at the general public.
Sheldrake's claims about phenomena caused by "morphic resonance" can be grouped into two broad categories. The first category are real phenomena such as biological heredity, animal and plant development and behaviour - Sheldrake thinks the scientific theories that real scientists have developed to explain these are incorrect because they can't explain everything in detail. The second group are phenomena which almost certainly don't exist outside of Sheldrake's imagination - namely various parapsychologicalclaims involving memory, telepathy, perception and cognition - particularly psychic dogs.
Most of Sheldrake's ideas are clearly pseudoscientific nonsense. Morphic resonance is extremely vague and ill-defined, and can only really be described as whatever Sheldrake says it is. Crucially, it is not falsifiable, and therefore not testable (although some have tried).
His latest book, "The Science Delusion" is an anti-scientific rant, in which he applies postmodernist hyperscepticism to science, accusing scientists of adhering to "scientificdogmata", such as the constancy of the speed of light. Ironically, Sheldrake fails to apply any sort of scepticism to his own ideas, which he promotes uncritically, despite there being no evidence for them.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake

The man is an idiot and not worth the time in listening to his sewage.

Tim
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Post by Agartha on Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:52 am

My own personal thoughts:





Everything is mechanical; only mechanistic explanations will do.

Not true, you cannot ignore the beautiful emotional unpredictability of being human.







The laws of nature are fixed.

Maybe on Earth but we cannot guarantee that for the whole universe.






Nature is without inherent purpose, and evolution has no goal.


Genetic mutation seems to happen for survival so nature's purpose is to survive and live. That is the goal.





Biological inheritance is a purely material process.


Biological inheritance is in our DNA.... What's wrong with that?



Memories are stored in the brain, and are wiped out at death.


What about people who had organ transplants and inherited memories from their donors? 








Mechanistic medicine is the only kind that works.


This was true before but now things are changing. I work in a hospital and clinicians are moving from a dominant medical model of health to a holistic one. We now know that well-being comes when both the physical and spiritual are taken in consideration.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:09 am

Nature is without inherent purpose, and evolution has no goal.


Genetic mutation seems to happen for survival so nature's purpose is to survive and live. That is the goal.

If everything happens randomly, what's with the survival, thing, why would it care.

Gods purpose.....

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Post by Agartha on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:41 am

Science never said things happen by chance without a reason. Mutations happen at random with respect to adaptation = molecular mechanism push those mutations in response to their environment. Random means because they happen unintentionally, they are not planned. They are simply a response.

This is why survival is the purpose of nature.
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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:52 pm

Agreed Ags. All organisms want to live long enough to reproduce, if a mutation increases that edge then the offspring carrying that mutation will reproduce more and so on. By the way that happens means that organisms change over time.

I am different from my ancestors of 300 years ago and in 300 years my descendants will not look like me.

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:15 pm

@Agartha wrote:Science never said things happen by chance without a reason. Mutations happen at random with respect to adaptation = molecular mechanism push those mutations in response to their environment. Random means because they happen unintentionally, they are not planned. They are simply a response.

This is why survival is the purpose of nature.

Yes, some call it god's work.

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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:33 pm

And that is an example of a religious dogma: "the Big Fella did it all".

Not based on proof or evidence just blind faith.

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:38 pm

@Rockhopper wrote:And that is an example of a religious dogma: "the Big Fella did it all".

Not based on proof or evidence just blind faith.

Tim.

god is not religious dogma.

Definition of God

In Classical theism, God is characterized as the metaphysically ultimate being (the first, timeless, absolutely simple, and sovereign being, who is devoid of any anthropomorphic qualities), in distinction to other conceptions such as Theistic Personalism, Open Theism, and Process Theism. Despite extensive writing on the nature of God, these classical theists did not believe that God could be defined. They believed that it would contradict the transcendent nature of God for mere humans to define him. Robert Barron explains by analogy that it seems impossible for a two-dimensional object to conceive of three-dimensional humans.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

God is a word that cannot be spoken as god encompasses all.

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Post by Rockhopper on Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:31 pm

Religious Dogma; "God Exists".

How do you know that he does? Tangible evidence please.

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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:26 am

@Rockhopper wrote:Religious Dogma; "God Exists".

How do you know that he does? Tangible evidence please.

Tim.


Everything is mechanical; only mechanistic explanations will do

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Post by Rockhopper on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:01 pm

Still waiting for that evidence! Gosh! That's right there is no tangible evidence!

Defination of 'Dogma'; Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded. (Emphasis mine).

The term 'Dogma' is NOT used in anything regarding science, nothing in science is fixed, it is open to modification as more info becomes available. What part of that don't you understand??

You really should try to read legitimate scientific journals not weird erratic statements from dickheads like Sheldrake who has been so completely debunked and is a proven liar.

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:09 pm

Forbidden Archeology

The Hidden History of the Human Race presents a representative sample of this anomalous evidence suggesting that humans have been on the earth for millions of years, ,just as the ancient Sanskrit writings of the Vedic literatures describe. The Vedic histories inform us that humans have existed since the beginning of the day of Brahma, about 2 billion years ago.

Cremo and Thompson conclude that even the conventionally accepted evidence does not offer a cohesive picture of the missing link; instead, the multiplicity of proposed evolutionary linkages among the hominids in Africa creates a very confusing scheme of human evolution. They call for a drastic revision of the now-dominant assumptions about human origins



Javaman Thighbone

In August 1892, Eugene Dubois discovered a fossilized humanlike femur on the bank of the Solo River in central Java, near the village of Trinil. 45 feet from this location he found a skullcap and molars. Dubois believed the molars, skull, and femur all came from the same being. However, the fact that these bones were found 45 feet from the place where the skull was unearthed, in a stratum containing hundreds of other animal bones makes doubtful the claim that both the thighbone and the skull actually belonged to the same creature or even the same species. In 1895 Dubois presented his findings to the Berlin Society for Anthropology, Ethnology, and Prehistory.The president of the society, Dr. Virchow declared that the femur was human and the skull belonged to an ape. Late in his life, Dubois concluded that the skullcap belonged to a large gibbon, an ape not considered by evolutionists to be closely related to humans. But this concept of the "missing link" is still widely promoted today!

http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/

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Post by Rockhopper on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:23 pm

This Micheal Cremo?

Michael Cremo is a Vedic creationist responsible for perpetuating much woo and fodder for conspiracy theorists, particularly through his book Forbidden Archaeology, which he co-wrote with Richard L. Thompson, another Vedic creationist. He believes that modern humans, i.e. Homo sapiens, have lived on the earth for billions of years with little or no alteration to their biological characteristics. He sometimes writes books on Hindu spirituality under the pseudonym of Drutakarma Dasa.
One of the core notions in Cremo's Forbidden Archaeology is the assertion that a system of knowledge filtration exists within archaeology (and by inference, the greater scientific community). This "explanation" conveniently makes it possible for Cremo to reject the (literal and literally) mountains of evidence contradicting his pseudohistorical and pseudoscientific claptrap.

He's one of the Creationist pseudoscientists that sells his books to gullible and even stupid people.

Tim.
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Post by Rockhopper on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:39 pm

And more on Micheal:

According to his own autobiography, Cremo has no scientific education (bet you never would have expected that).[1] His website though proudly lists his membership in several professional associations. Looking into the admission criteria of these organizations, it is clear that membership is not tied to expertise:

the History of Science Society admits everyone willing to pay the annual fees; they have also produced a statement on evolution that contradicts Cremo's ideas.

the Philosophy of Science Association has three types of members - "full", "associate" and "student". Only full membership requires any professional credentials. The PSA also shares an online membership directory with the HSS, but as of November 2010, Cremo is not listed in it as a member of any of the two organizations.

the World Archeological Congress is open to everyone willing to pay the annual fees.

the European Association of Archaeologists accepts both "full" and "associate" members. Only professional archaeologists can be full members. Cremo's autobiography does not specify what kind of membership he has and there is no online members directory.

Cremo is also a "associate member of the Bhaktivedanta Institute specializing in history and philosophy of science." The BI is "the scientific research branch of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness", according to his own website. 'Nuff said.

What part of "Always check your sources" don't you understand LGR?

Tim.
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Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:51 pm

You just proved my point, peer-review must fit the 'agenda'

.........and to think Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were both college dropouts.


Jobs...

He dropped out of Oregon's Reed College after one semester, although he returned to audit a class in calligraphy. He quit one of his first jobs, designing video games for Atari, to backpack around India and take psychedelic drugs.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/08/25/steve.jobs.profile/index.html

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Post by Rockhopper on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:26 pm

Neither Gates or Jobs claimed to be "Experts" on Archeaology LGR. You source claims to be so. Again you are claiming that fringies are a true source of info.  And all those genuine Scientists are all part of some super, grand conspiracy for their own nefarious ends.

A quick search on Google will tell you whether or not some-one like Michael Cremo can be trusted and is telling the truth. Why is it that you don't want to do that? Does it shake your own particular beliefs.

Your OP is Titled "The Ten Dogmas of Science" and I pointed out that there is no "Dogmas" in Science except in the minds of Charlatans like Rupert Sheldrake. 

Tim.
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Post by Lenzabi on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:52 pm

Just keep it clean fellas, not hitting below the belts. Wink

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Post by Rockhopper on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:14 pm

I try to Len. The leader on this subject is that Science is a dogma or dogmas which it is not. A Dogma is an absolute and nothing in scientific is that. All Scientific Theories are open to modification as more data becomes available. 

One can not rely on the words of Sheldrake, Cremo et al as they have been thoroughly discredited.

All I have asked LGR is to check out his sources thoroughly to see if they can be believed, if they can't then don't post outright statements based on them.

Tim.
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