Struggle

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Struggle

Post by Kaere on Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:25 am

Must we struggle in order to develop as people?

Can we become better people than we are or are we preprogrammed?

Does a constant sense of adversity in our lives guarantee that we will evolve spiritually?


What are your thoughts? Do you have any on this subject?

Myself, I get irked by that one statement that is thrown around a lot... that without our struggles and problems, we wouldn't be who we are. That implies that who we are is a good thing and that we're happy there (it isn't always necessarily so).
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Re: Struggle

Post by Rockhopper on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:33 am

Life is dynamic and constantly changing Ka. In 1000 years humans will be a lot different than we are now. So, yes, adversity does make us stronger and even a bit more adaptable.

Tim.
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Re: Struggle

Post by Rogue on Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:11 am

@Kaere wrote:

Does a constant sense of adversity in our lives guarantee that we will evolve spiritually?



Guarantee? I don't think it does individually. It can, as Rock says, make us stronger and more adaptable, but for some, continued adversity only breaks them. Look at all the depression and anxiety (and suicide) that we see nowadays. Was it always there and is only now being diagnosed, or is it the way we are living nowadays? Look at the drugs that are fairly freely prescribed now.

I believe some evolve spiritually, but for others sadly they drown. As a society, hopefully we evolve through adversity, but for the individual maybe not so clear cut.

K wrote:Myself, I get irked by that one statement that is thrown around a lot... that without our struggles and problems, we wouldn't be who we are. That implies that who we are is a good thing and that we're happy there (it isn't always necessarily so).

There are so many throw-away lines that irk me too (especially the 'new agey' type). They get thrown round like some quick fix answer to everything that life dishes up. I do feel a certain amount of truth in them but they are so overused that the real honest meaning is lost (become unauthentic?). Its too easy to use these and not really feel and understand what is really going on for people. They can in themselves become blinkers to the world.
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Re: Struggle

Post by Kaere on Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:02 pm

@Rockhopper wrote:Life is dynamic and constantly changing Ka. In 1000 years humans will be a lot different than we are now. So, yes, adversity does make us stronger and even a bit more adaptable.

Tim.

I was meaning in more of an emotional way, Rock Smile and I do disagree. Adversity has done a lot towards changing me, yes, but not in a positive direction imo.
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Re: Struggle

Post by Kaere on Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:10 pm

@Rogue wrote:Guarantee? I don't think it does individually. It can, as Rock says, make us stronger and more adaptable, but for some, continued adversity only breaks them. Look at all the depression and anxiety (and suicide) that we see nowadays. Was it always there and is only now being diagnosed, or is it the way we are living nowadays? Look at the drugs that are fairly freely prescribed now.

I believe some evolve spiritually, but for others sadly they drown. As a society, hopefully we evolve through adversity, but for the individual maybe not so clear cut.
Yes, I can follow that thinking... like a colony of ants, the colony may survive but not every ant.

@Rogue wrote:There are so many throw-away lines that irk me too (especially the 'new agey' type). They get thrown round like some quick fix answer to everything that life dishes up. I do feel a certain amount of truth in them but they are so overused that the real honest meaning is lost (become unauthentic?). Its too easy to use these and not really feel and understand what is really going on for people. They can in themselves become blinkers to the world.
Yes, very much so. When I hear those things I get the distinct impression that I haven't really been heard by the person saying them... throwing a bandaid at it. Not that I haven't used them myself either...

I suppose I'm in a pensive mood the last few.

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Re: Struggle

Post by Lenzabi on Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:48 am

I see each issue I have had to struggle with in my life as a challenge. Each challenge I have had to either overcome, adapt to, or survive through. the one thing I have dealt with is learning which challenge or struggle was which. I have found that the Buddhists do have the "All life is suffering" partially true. Like when we fire clay through a kiln, the piece either does come out right, with minor flaws, or breaks apart, and the same is actually true for people. Not all make it, some succumb at the time of challenge to the situation and suffer in some way from it. Others come through like champions and are the better from it, either because of or in spite of the situation they got through. Others come through battered and scathed, having learned lessons only that could be learned through some form of challenge. I find that many people who may live a life with no struggle or challenge can develop themselves, but only if they seek out the knowledge that they must use to advance, too many with the "easy" or "cushy" life stay nestled in a coccoon of ignorance and low empathy as they have not the knowledge or the experiences to understand what others are going through, or have gone through.

An example are the very wealthy in this nation who have never wanted or needed for any of the material things in life, always having food security, home security, financial security far beyond what most normal folks have had, yet they seems indifferent to the people who have not and never had such security in their lives as they mandate the cutting off of aid programs and health care for the poor. Of course we do not know how much emotional or spiritual security or assurances they had, as these are important as much as a roof/food/medicine to develop, and they seem to be cold hearted individuals based on their words and deeds. Had they truly developed through adversity, would they still be so quick to dismiss the needs of others as irrelevant?

On the other hand, I who have suffered a lot as many see it, still am generous when I have enough to share, some I know who are "better off" than me think it foolish to share what I have when I have such a windfall, but I have been through tough scrapes and so know what it was like when others lent a hand, and I feel it necessary to return the favor. Now I could also have developed a sense from my life of keeping what I have to myself and screw all others, let them fend for themselves attitude. And I think that is what sets people apart, how they handle the "struggles" and how they let themselves be shaped, or have a say in their own shaping.

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Re: Struggle

Post by Rockhopper on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:26 am

@Kaere wrote:I was meaning in more of an emotional way, Rock Smile and I do disagree. Adversity has done a lot towards changing me, yes, but not in a positive direction imo.

I was a bit short in my response, sorry.

I simply meant that adversity sharpens us and makes us stronger if we can overcome it. Both emotionally and physically. There are always obstacles that get in our way and it makes us stronger when we find a way of overcoming them.

With my little Market Garden I only sell what is necessary to cover the costs of producing the veges. The rest goes to the Food Banks and Churches to distribute to those who need it. I don't need the money and I like to help others.

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Re: Struggle

Post by Mordae on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:18 am

@Kaere wrote:Must we struggle in order to develop as people?

Personally, I don't think so. Part of the issue IMO is that we have , as a species, chosen a path that conflicts with natural rythms and cycles. So rather than working within the underlying system, our lifestyle generates a resistance that inevitably leads to constant struggle.

Can we become better people than we are or are we preprogrammed?

Just my opinion, but everyone could be 'better' than they are, they just need to want to be.

Does a constant sense of adversity in our lives guarantee that we will evolve spiritually?

No. The reaction to the adversity (and even this can change depending on the situation) is what drives the end result.


What are your thoughts? Do you have any on this subject?

Put in highlighted answers Smile

@Kaere wrote:Myself, I get irked by that one statement that is thrown around a lot... that without our struggles and problems, we wouldn't be who we are. That implies that who we are is a good thing and that we're happy there (it isn't always necessarily so).

While I don't really disagree with the statement, it's not really a true statement. You could equally say that without joy and love, we wouldn't be who we are either. Personally, I prefer to say that I am the total sum of my experiences Cool
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Re: Struggle

Post by Rogue on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:09 am


Yes you're right Mordae, we can sometimes concentrate on the adversity but we also learn so much from experiencing joy and love as well. That no doubt makes us stronger to deal with adversity.
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Re: Struggle

Post by Mordae on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:01 am

I think so. If a person has no concept of what could be out there except more adversity, it will, more than likely, affect how he/she reacts to it.

Another part of it maybe is that defining oneself solely by the crap you go through can't really be very healthy, on any level.
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Re: Struggle

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:05 pm

Struggle =  Jihad

The word Jihad is from the Arabic root word JAHADA which basically means striving or struggle.

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Re: Struggle

Post by Monk (in hiding) on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:37 pm

Too much self-centered attitude, you see, brings, you see, isolation. Result: loneliness, fear, anger. The extreme self-centered attitude is the source of suffering.
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Re: Struggle

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