Birth in Nature: Natural Birth

[Stargate]

I am not sure everyone  can look at this, but I hope it is accepted. If not, I will not post anything like this anymore. 


I was going to write something here, but I think the pictures speaks for themselves.
To me this is a brave and spiritual woman. This is a real family, if we could show and teach mostly the boys, that birth is a wonderful phenomena, we just have to embrace it. If we could move away from macho-ism, and let nature do what we cannot, I am almost sure we would be in a better place on our beautiful planet.

[Agartha]

I watched this whilst researching for an essay on pregnancy and birth..... I think it's beautiful and I admire how calm she was throughout the whole labour.

[Rockhopper]

Birth is a wonderful thing Star.

Yes Ags, I have seen that clip too. One of the best I have ever seen.

Tim.

[Solace]

This vid brought me to tears.... so beautiful.. I would love to give birth someday in such a natural environment.

[Stargate]

Can you imagine how strong she was? If you have never done something before, or have not watched it before you are brave to go into it without help, or a doctor. The reason this video appealed to me is because my last child was born natural. No one slapped her, or touched her, she came out alone breathing. We had done some research before on African women giving natural birth, so there were something we knew. After the baby was born she did not know the baby was crying because it was cold after leaving the warm womb, but instinct made her realize, and she covered it.  Most of all I find the connection the older child developed and the space the mother gave it in the short space of time was just remarkable.

[Agartha]

The thing is that not every woman is born to deliver babies like this, hence so many used to die giving birth back in time.

My first son, Frank, was 9.8 lb... yep, almost 10 pounds! I am a small woman and after 24hrs of being in labour we/they were unable to take him out and because he was getting really distressed I ended up with an emergency C section. If I was born a century before we would have died, both mother and baby.

So I admire this woman BUT I am not ashamed that I was not able to do the same as we are all different and just because one person is able to, it doesn't mean it's right for all of us. Of course natural is the best, but as long as you deliver your baby in a safe healthy way, then it doesn't matter whether he comes out from your birth canal or from a small suprapubic incision.

[Stargate]

Ags, I don't agree that every woman was not made to deliver babies in that way. I do agree that some will die, but there is nothing wrong with dying. Nature will balance itself one way or the other.


Putting a knife on the body is not the way to cure a body, although many will disagree.
In the past vertical births was the name of the game when you look at the amount of babies dying from lack of oxygen. They started slapping the babies and hanging then upside down to simulate the natural birth. This procedure would deliver a shock to the system and it would com-bust into action.


Strange beings touching a new born baby can be detrimental to the new born, because the vibrations coming from an adult can be too strong and affect the baby in it's later years.
It can be traumatic when the babies at birth are surrounded with strange people in an unknown environment (hospital)


I do not think you should feel ashamed because you have to make your own decisions, and it must work for you.


I can testify that my last child was a natural birth and from my six children she is different in many ways.

[Stirky]

Yes in theory natural births and even births at home would be ideal. A lovely natural birth with no problems. But like Aggie said in reality it doesn't work like that. I was glad to be in a hospital with all my three. A friend of mine has had home births with all of hers, but mainly as she has a really big phobia of hospitals and needles, but luckily all home births were ok. I just wanted to be in a hospital so I had medical help on hand if anything did go wrong. Just as well as all three of mine were back to back, so a more difficult labour. My first son got stuck, so had to have a ventouse delivery and was difficult. Son number two was 9lbs 10ozs, although I had been told earlier in the day by a scan with a specialist he was only going to be 4lbs if I gave birth to him that day, but to go home to rest as he still had 2 weeks to go and he hoped the contractions would stop again. So going into definite labour thinking I was having a tiny baby was a worry. He ended up a bit distressed as had the cord round his neck, but the midwife soon sorted that out. My daughter was the easiest birth, although I wasn't feeling well as was just recovering from a bad case of food poisoning and hadn't eaten for a week, so I was rather weak and tired. So glad I was in hospital with all three.

[Stargate]

Stirks, I first had to take a step into the unknown to get the experience I needed. My wife was very brave because she had no experience. It is against the law in my country to have a baby without a doctor, so you can understand if we had any complication it could have been tragic. But the results were phenomenal in terms of birth health. 


The other point I liked in the video is the connection between the mother, the baby, and the small brother. That boy will be a blessing to his mother and sister just watching the birth. 
I was never the same after the birth of my daughter, although watching was at first not easy.


We live in different times, we are taught to fear everything, especially death, so we don,t want to die although there is no guarantee. There is more to fear from life than death.

[Solace]

((hugs)) to Aggie(love the new avvie) and Stirky for what you endured. You are strong women and i am glad you both were in the hospital, as you have valid points about the access to help if needed. I have always had a fear of hospitals etc. so out in nature just seemed like a wonderful idea if and when the time comes. But in case of emergency, it would not be ideal.

p.s. Interesting experience and perspective Star!

[Agartha]

Ags, I don't agree that every woman was not made to deliver babies in that way. I do agree that some will die, but there is nothing wrong with dying. Nature will balance itself one way or the other.

Humans are not made perfect so no, not all women are born with the capacity to have a natural delivery..... and nature will balance itself??? That is a horrible thing to say.

Let me give you some statistics (WHO 2014):

- Before the advances in medicine 4% of women used to die giving birth, whilst a higher percentage used to die afterwards

- We still have 800 maternal deaths every year in the world

-99% of those death occurred in poor countries, where women don't have the resources to pay a doctor.... mainly in Africa and Asia

It is not about fearing death, it is about valuing those that live by trying everything possible to keep them alive.

So if one of your daughters is giving birth and she is unable to do it naturally, it would be ok with you if she dies in the process instead of getting medical help?

[Agartha]

((hugs)) to Aggie(love the new avvie) and Stirky for what you endured. You are strong women and i am glad you both were in the hospital, as you have valid points about the access to help if needed. I have always had a fear of hospitals etc. so out in nature just seemed like a wonderful idea if and when the time comes. But in case of emergency, it would not be ideal.

Thank you, my lovely...... I nicked the avvie from facebook yesterday! lol

And I absolutely agree: a natural birth in a natural environment is ideal, but you also need to think about your life and your baby's... you and hubby will have to balance all pros and cons when the time comes

[Kaere]

Birth is a highly personal thing and frankly as long as mother and baby are alive and thriving, happy and content... then that's absolutely all that matters. I do not think an unattended birth is the way to go however... even in the past, women were attended by someone with experience as much as possible so really either with a doula or midwife or nurse or doctor, either at home or in hospital, it's all good. I do have my reservations about an outside birth like the one shown however (predators, clean water, emergency situation, hypothermia, the list goes on...).

[Solace]

@ Aggie (yay! lol ie. fb) and nods, very true..thank you. ( i know i would put safety first.... but it was nice to consider the nature option as a less stressful environment.. but not worth the risk ultimately..

[Stargate]

I am laughing Ags because you say, "what a horrible thing for me to say" Nature is not biased it sees things a little different in terms of balance. You could also say nature is wicked, but I guess it's up to your subjective perception.


As far as natural delivery goes, I do think all women are equipt, but not all can finish the task, or will, even if you take surgery.


I do agree with most of what you said, then in the final analysis you have to weigh the balance. 



No madam, I would get her medical help if she wanted it. However if she decided to have a child without medical help I would respect it as her decision.


And last but not least, death is the final end of our fleshy experience. We fear it so much that we do not look at the benefits of having an healthy child berth. We fear it so much that we make sometimes unhealthy decisions.


The animals don't have doctors, they live on the same plane in child birth.


Going back to some African culture, if a baby was deformed, the mother would stifle it and kill it by covering the mouth and nose with their right hand. The reason being they think it's not prepared for life and it would be suffering for both child and parents. Everyone knew about this but it was a cultural secret. 

[Kaere]

And last but not least, death is the final end of our fleshy experience. We fear it so much that we do not look at the benefits of having an healthy child berth. We fear it so much that we make sometimes unhealthy decisions.

You are implying that a birth in hospital is an unhealthy birth? An unhealthy decision? Really? I think you have some very strange ideas about what a hospital birth is actually like. Perhaps some research on your behalf would help you to understand better. Educate yourself about what really happens because it seems to me you are very behind the times.

Anything that puts a child or mother at an unnecessary risk is an unhealthy and irresponsible decision imo.

[Stargate]

Kaere you always seem to take things out of context, although I still thinks its good to mention them.






I am saying nothing of the sort. I am saying because we fear death so much we make decisions sometimes that is based on the fear more than the health. I don't find that hard to understand. I have five children born in a hospital, I have one child born naturally at home that is my experience. I notice a huge difference between the 5 and the 1.
I am 74 years old I have had 15 operations and am still living. It seems you have not had a natural birth so I do accept your defending the hospital birth.


The reason I made the choice about natural birth is because I did my research, I always do before I open my mouth so I can defend what I say. I also make sure I have the experience before I make definitive statements.

[Kaere]

Let's define natural birth then, shall we Stargate? Cause they happen in hospitals all the time. One is not required to give birth lying down in a hospital (you can crouch or squat), no babies are slapped to make them start breathing, there is no room full of strangers to welcome the baby, they are not whisked away from the mother immediately (she is often the first one to hold baby), fathers routinely delivery their babies...

My defense of hospital birth or home birth or any birth has nothing to do with my own experiences.

What do you consider to be a natural birth?

[Stargate]

Let's define natural birth then, shall we Stargate? Cause they happen in hospitals all the time. One is not required to give birth lying down in a hospital (you can crouch or squat), no babies are slapped to make them start breathing, there is no room full of strangers to welcome the baby, they are not whisked away from the mother immediately (she is often the first one to hold baby), fathers routinely delivery their babies...

My defense of hospital birth or home birth or any birth has nothing to do with my own experiences.

What do you consider to be a natural birth?

I consider natural birth to be a vertical birth, much like the animals.

[Kaere]

Many animals give birth lying down, they are not all the same.

To me, a natural birth is one where a baby is born (with or without intervention). Full stop. No qualifications to that statement.

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