Re: Do you believe the Holy Bible ?

[Monk (in hiding)]

Trees live in harmony with nature, we do not. To think we the human species are the greatest/ most conscious and most evolved is nothing more than group narcissism.

Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity, or egotistic admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride. The term originated in Greek mythology with Narcissus, who fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water.

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The Dangers Of Overselling Evolution

I don’t think science has anything to fear from a free exchange of ideas between thoughtful proponents of different views. Moreover, there are a number of us in the scientific community who, while we appreciate Darwin’s contributions, think that the rhetorical approach of scientists such as Coyne unnecessarily polarizes public discussions and­–even more seriously­–overstates both the evidence for Darwin’s theory of historical biology and the benefits of Darwin’s theory to the actual practice of experimental science.

Coyne seems to believe the major importance of biological science is its speculations about matters which cannot be observed, tested and verified, such as origin of life, speciation, the essences of our fossilized ancestors, the ultimate causes of their changes, etc.

Experimental biology has dramatically increased our understanding of the intricate workings within living organisms that account for their survival, showing how they continue to function despite the myriad assaults on them from their environments. These advances in knowledge are attributable to the development of new methodologies and instruments, unimaginable in the preceding centuries, applied to the investigation of living organisms. Crucial to all fruitful experiments in biology is their design, for which Darwin’s and Wallace’s principles apparently provide no guidance.

Contrary to the beliefs of Professor Coyne and some other defenders of Darwin, these advances are not due to studies of an organism’s ancestors that are recovered from fossil deposits. Those rare artifacts–which have been preserved as fossils–are impressions in stones which, even when examined with the heroic efforts of paleontologists, cannot reveal the details that made these amazing living organisms function.


http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/23/evolution-creation-debate-biology-opinions-contributors_darwin.html

[Rockhopper]

Trees may be in tune with nature but that was not the point I was making. NO HUMAN EVER LIVES FOR 1000YRS, NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL! It is impossible for them to do so.

This may come as a surprise to you VM but although we share about 40% of the genes with trees and plants, we are somewhat different in the way we move and think. We also share about 65% of our genes with reptiles but we are not reptiles either. Humans are Mammals not plants or reptiles. Do try to keep up my friend.

I know of the author, Phill Skell. He's an eminent Chemist not a Biologist. And sadly he is an Intelligent Design follower. So it's hardly surprising that he would post what he did also in Forbes Mag.

From the site:

The public should view with profound alarm this unnecessary and misguided reintroduction of speculative historical, philosophical and religious ideas into the realms of experimental science.

Emphasis mine.

Very true, one should not but even scientists have their own views on life and it's origins.

Just because something is supposedly translated out of some ancient text doesn't make it true either. Especially when there is so much controversy of said translation and there is no-one left who fully knows how the writers of that text were thinking at that time.

Tim.

[X]

How old was moses said to live...their version....and modern man's version please?

[Marilyn7]

Hey Mr.W (sorry I missed you ) ..Moses lived for 120 years . In Deuteronomy 34:7 ...Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone .......In France Jeanne Calment lived to be 122 and died in 1997 .

[Marilyn7]

In regards to lifespans of approximately 1000 years , in secular literature several ancient cultures claim long life spans . These cultures include the Babylonians , Romans, Chinese and Greek . Originally God created us to live forever in our earthly bodies . Sin entered the equation at the Garden of Eden . Genesis records a decline after this incident and a rapid decline in lifespan following Noahs flood . Noah lived to be 950 and later in Genesis we see that Abraham lived to be 175 . Evidence found in the Sumerian kings list coincides with the long life spans recorded in Genesis . The flood event is also recorded in the Sumerian text and also shows a rapid decline in life spans following the flood ...........

[Agartha]

Yes, but that's no evidence........that's just writings in an old book!! They are myths.

Let's say in 3000 years Harry Potter is forgotten and then somebody suddenly finds an old book: should they believe our generation knew magic, flew brooms and fought Voldemort???

[X]

Back then agartha...they weren't trying to make millions at the box office.

according to your theory..everything written is a myth..including history and all you have learned...i give the ancient people much more respect than that

[Rockhopper]

Yes, people can live for 120yrs and some have. But they are hardly sprightly at that age. 120yrs is a long way shorter than 1000 or more years.

Even 120yrs in biblical times would have been almost unattainable due to the stresses of life then.

As Ags put it, the bible is a book of fables and folk stories that don't represent the real life of people at that time. One cannot extrapolate what we now know to then. The people had little to no knowledge of the natural events that happen around us. We know what causes a thunderstorm, an earthquake, a tsunami etc. To ancient people they had to be the act of a pissed off god.

Tim.

[X]

Regarding life spans...I think there was much written on huge life spans...I believe the experiment of humans went through many trials and errors....i also believe the ancient texts and structures are grossly misdated. The flood for instance was in my opinion...100,000 years ago.

we have an animal called neanderthhal...then we get genetic manipulation by the gods...designed Neanderthal in their image..their life span....but adding a soul to an animal...or conscience leads to many problems...of which the remedy is...shortening of life spans.

[X]

What you are saying rock is that man back then were not very intelligent...if so...then we have to ask ourselves how, in some ancient texts, did they know so much in regards to astronomical events...and other knowledge supposedly not known then.

I think our intelligence has devolved since ancient times.

[Rockhopper]

Back then agartha...they weren't trying to make millions at the box office.

according to your theory..everything written is a myth..including history and all you have learned...i give the ancient people much more respect than that

And Sitchin wasn't? Or Veilokovsky?

It's unfair to say that everything written is a myth at all. It's also not true. According to your theory Mr. W. everything that was written in the past is absolutely true. And that is equally false logic.

How do you know what the Sumer texts say? Can you personally read them? How do you know that the translations you follow are right? Or wrong? Do you know and understand how the ancient Sumerians thought? How they expressed their feelings? No. you don't nor do I so we must go by the consensus of the many people who do understand that. When you get 167 scholars all coming to the same conclusion and two or three disenters, who do you believe?

Tim.

[Rockhopper]

What you are saying rock is that man back then were not very intelligent...if so...then we have to ask ourselves how, in some ancient texts, did they know so much in regards to astronomical events...and other knowledge supposedly not known then.

I think our intelligence has devolved since ancient times.

Where have I ever said that ancient man then was not very intelligent at all. And you know that. Homo Sapiens was as intelligent as we are. They knew of astronomical events, the various stars and even planets that are visible to the naked eye. They did so because it was important to their way of life. I have already gone into the reasons why circular temples and observatories were built. I have gone into great detail on how they were built as well. That doesn't explain what a thunderstorm is nor did they know.

Neanderthals were human Mr. W. They were as intelligent as we are and were assimilated into homo sapiens. Again, please point out where there is any proof or evidence that they were changed by an outside influence. Home Sapiens were around for some thousands of years before the Neanderthals met their demise.

Tim.

[X]

Science today tries to mask the truth of old in the trickery of science...anything can be called a hoax In this day and age...everything can be faked..including science....how do you know that the ancient texts are false...because of what you read..or did you do the experiments yourself?

I believe the ancient texts because there was no motive for lying then....like today...every decision made today is based on the dollar...and once you realize that...your eyes open

[X]

What you are saying rock is that man back then were not very intelligent...if so...then we have to ask ourselves how, in some ancient texts, did they know so much in regards to astronomical events...and other knowledge supposedly not known then.

I think our intelligence has devolved since ancient times.

Where have I ever said that ancient man then was not very intelligent at all. And you know that. Homo Sapiens was as intelligent as we are. They knew of astronomical events, the various stars and even planets that are visible to the naked eye.  They did so because it was important to their way of life. I have already gone into the reasons why circular temples and observatories were built. I have gone into great detail on how they were built as well. That doesn't explain  what a thunderstorm is nor did they know.

Neanderthals were human Mr. W. They were as intelligent as we are and were assimilated into homo sapiens. Again, please point out where there is any proof or evidence that they were changed by an outside influence. Home Sapiens were around for some thousands of years before the Neanderthals met their demise.

Tim.

exactly what I said...they were very intelligent and not profit driven...which equals the truth..and honesty

suppression of truth in the name of science is sick

[X]

If you make money based on your beliefs...
or your research/science...i will look elsewhere for my truths....this has lead me to ancient truths...not myths

[Monk (in hiding)]

In regards to lifespans of approximately 1000 years , in secular literature several ancient cultures claim long life spans . These cultures include the Babylonians , Romans, Chinese and Greek . Originally God created us to live forever in our earthly bodies . Sin entered the equation at the Garden of Eden . Genesis records a decline after this incident and a rapid decline in lifespan following Noahs flood . Noah lived to be 950 and later in Genesis we see that Abraham lived to be 175 . Evidence found in the Sumerian kings list coincides with the long life spans recorded in Genesis . The flood event is also recorded in the Sumerian text and also shows a rapid decline in life spans following the flood ...........

Hopi Elder

Dan Katchongva, the late Sun Clan leader of Hotevilla

THE BEGINNING OF LIFE


Somewhere down in the underworld we were created by the Great Spirit, the Creator.  We were created first one, then two, then three. We were created equal, of oneness, living in a spiritual way, where the life is everlasting. We were happy and at peace with our fellow men. All things were plentiful, provided by our Mother Earth upon which we were placed. We did not need to plant or work to get food. Illness and troubles were unknown. For many years we lived happily and increased to great numbers.

When the Great Spirit created us, he also gave us instructions or laws to live by. We promised to live by his laws so that we would remain peaceful, using them as a guideline for living happily upon that land where he created and placed us. But from the beginning he warned us that we must not be tempted by certain things by which we might lose this perfect way of life.

Of course we had advantage of many good things in this life, so by and by we broke the Creator’s command by doing what he told us not to do. So he punished us by making us as we are now, with both soul and body. He said, :


"From now on you will have to go on your own. You will get sick, and the length of your life will be limited."

He made our bodies of two principles, good and evil. The left side is good for it contains the heart. The right side is evil for it has no heart.

The left side is awkward but wise. The right side is clever and strong, but it lacks wisdom. There would be a constant struggle between the two sides, and by our actions we would have to decide which was stronger, the evil or the good.

We lived in good ways for many years, but eventually evil proved to be stronger. Some of the people forgot or ignored the Great Spirit’s laws and once again began to do things that went against his instructions. They became materialistic, inventing many things for their own gain, and not sharing things as they had in the past. This resulted in a great division, for some still wanted to follow the original instructions and live simply.

The inventive ones, clever but lacking wisdom, made many destructive things by which their lives were disrupted, and which threatened to destroy all the people. Many of the things we see today are known to have existed at that time.

Finally immorality flourished. The life of the people became corrupted with social and sexual license which swiftly involved the Kikmongwi’s (chief’s) wife and daughters, who rarely came home to take care of their household duties. Not only the Kikmongwi but also the high religious leaders were having the same problem. Soon the leaders and others with good hearts were worried that the life of the people was getting out of control.

The Kikmongwi gathered the high priests. They smoked and prayed for guidance toward a way to solve the corruption.

Many times they gathered, until finally someone suggested that they move, find a new place, and start a new life.
 

[X]

And in the end...you will lose it all because of greed...financial gain...

[Monk (in hiding)]

What you are saying rock is that man back then were not very intelligent...if so...then we have to ask ourselves how, in some ancient texts, did they know so much in regards to astronomical events...and other knowledge supposedly not known then.

I think our intelligence has devolved since ancient times.

Where have I ever said that ancient man then was not very intelligent at all. And you know that. Homo Sapiens was as intelligent as we are. They knew of astronomical events, the various stars and even planets that are visible to the naked eye.  They did so because it was important to their way of life. I have already gone into the reasons why circular temples and observatories were built. I have gone into great detail on how they were built as well. That doesn't explain  what a thunderstorm is nor did they know.

Neanderthals were human Mr. W. They were as intelligent as we are and were assimilated into homo sapiens. Again, please point out where there is any proof or evidence that they were changed by an outside influence. Home Sapiens were around for some thousands of years before the Neanderthals met their demise.

Tim.

The human brain is shrinking faster than the shrinkage of the body. Image credit: Superscholar.org

Christopher Ruff, of John Hopkins University, and his colleagues thoroughly analyzed the fossil record to determine the evolving body mass and brain size of the various Homo species leading up to us. The results show that the assumption of a straight progression from a pea-brained ancestor to the ultrabrainy modern Homo sapiens is decidedly shaky. Hominid brains appear to have remained fairly constant in size for a long period from some 1.8 million years ago until about 600,000 years ago. But then, from 600,000 to 150,000 years before the present, fossils show that the cranial capacity of our ancestors skyrocketed. Brain mass peaked at about 1,440 grams (3.17 pounds). Since then brain mass has declined to the 1,300 grams (2.87 pounds) that is typical today (Ruff 1997).

http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/why-did-our-brains-stop-expanding-001791#!bdrIbv

[Monk (in hiding)]

Top 11 Myths about Neanderthals

1. Neanderthal tools were simplistic compared to humans
2. Neanderthals spoke through grunts and animal-like sounds
3. Neanderthals did not bury their dead
4. Neanderthals did not make homes
5. Neanderthals were carnivores who ate little else than raw meat
7. Neanderthals were not good parents
8. Neanderthals had no forms of cultural expression
9. Neanderthals were incapable of showing care and empathy for others
10. Neanderthals did not mix with humans
11. Neanderthals were our direct ancestors

http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/top-ten-myths-about-neanderthals-001551#!bdrRSK

[Monk (in hiding)]

Yes, but that's no evidence........that's just writings in an old book!! They are myths.

Let's say in 3000 years Harry Potter is forgotten and then somebody suddenly finds an old book: should they believe our generation knew magic, flew brooms and fought Voldemort???

What is truth?

X'plain...

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