Scotland, the Brave
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Scotland, the Brave
by Rogue Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:00 am
Scotland Readies For Close Vote On Independence
Reuters
Posted: 09/11/2014 1:28 pm EDT
Scotland is due to vote on September 18th in a referendum on Scottish independence and many people in Northern Ireland will be watching closely on its outcome.
By Angus MacSwan and Alistair Smout
EDINBURGH, Sept 11 (Reuters) - The battle for the hearts and heads of the Scottish people intensified on Thursday as two banks said they would shift their registered head offices to London if Scotland voted to break away from the United Kingdom in a referendum next week.
The warning from Edinburgh-based Lloyds and RBS put the independence campaign on the defensive and followed a new poll which showed a slender lead for those wishing to keep the 307-year long union with England.
And the Scotsman newspaper, in a front-page editorial on Thursday, announced its verdict on the choice: "We are better together."
The latest developments heightened the drama and the passions surrounding the historic referendum.
In the past week, polls had shown a surge in support for the independence campaign led by Alex Salmond's Scottish National Party, and it appeared they were on a march to victory in next Thursday's vote.
That prompted Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron and Ed Miliband of the opposition Labor Party to head to Scotland on Wednesday to make emotional appeals for Scots to stay within "Britain's family of nations".
The pro-independence camp says it is time for Scots to rule their own country and build a fairer society without being told what to do by a political elite in London. The campaign for staying together says Scotland is more prosperous and secure within the United Kingdom, and says an independent nation would struggle to be economically viable.
The unanswered questions of what currency Scotland would use and what central bank it would have led to alarm in the corporate world as well as weighing on voters' minds.
Dutch insurer Aegon NV also said on Thursday it would set up a new registered life company in England if Scotland exited the union.
The company said policies for its non-Scottish customers in the UK would continue to be in sterling and that it would support any different currency for Scottish based customers.
Thursday's announcements by Edinburgh-based Lloyds and Royal Bank of Scotland - both part-owned by the British government - were greeted by the "No" campaign as bolstering their position.
Lloyds bank, which is 25 percent-owned by the British government and controls Bank of Scotland, said its contingency plans included setting up "legal entities in England", a move that would not affect its business.
RBS said it would be necessary to re-domicile its holding company. TSB Banking Group, which is part-owned by Lloyds, said it was likely to relocate some operations to England.
Lloyds' headquarters are in London but its registered office is in Edinburgh. RBS senior management is based in London but its registered offices are in Edinburgh. The location of a company's registered office, its legal home, is what dictates its regulatory and tax regime.
RBS Chief Executive Ross McEwan told staff that moving the registered offices did not mean it would cut jobs in Scotland or move operations away, and it would not affect its day-to-day services.
"This is a technical procedure regarding the location of our registered head office. It is not an intention to move operations or jobs," McEwan said in a memo seen by Reuters.
Salmond seized on McEwan's comments to dismiss the significance of the moves. He accused the British government of orchestrating a campaign among corporate leaders to talk negatively about independence.
"I think the people of Scotland have moved beyond these warnings and these scaremongerings," he told a news conference.
John Swinney, finance minister in the SNP-led Scottish government, told the BBC that the banks' announcements were a result of the British government's refusal to agree to a formal currency union with an independent Scotland.
Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has raised questions about currency arrangements in an independent Scotland, saying it would need stockpiles of sterling if it adopted the pound without an agreement with the rest of the United Kingdom.
The thought of the banks' departure caused little heartache in some quarters.
"I would rather be poor and standing on my own two feet, making my decisions about my country, rather than being ripped off by robber barons in Westminster," Daniel Hargreaves, a "Yes" voter from Edinburgh, told Reuters as he rushed to work.
Salmond also repeated his stance that, despite what political leaders in London are now saying, rump United Kingdom would agree to a currency union in the event of a "Yes" victory as it was common sense and would be in their mutual interest.
His confidence does not extend to financial markets, with the pound taking a hit as the possibility of a "Yes" victory strengthened. Investors also fear the effect on Britain of Scotland claiming much of the North Sea oil and gas reserves.
Two of Britain's biggest retailers, John Lewis JLP.UL] and Next also said an independent Scotland could face higher prices in the shops.
Charlie Mayfield, chairman of department store chain John Lewis Partnership, which also owns the Waitrose grocery chain, said it cost more to deliver goods in Scotland due to the longer distances and higher regulatory costs.
Next Chief Executive Simon Wolfson said it would not be difficult for Next to adapt but he would worry that prices and taxes would go up and jobs be lost.
Salmond also said on Thursday he was sure the European Union would welcome independent Scotland as a member, pointing to the substantial proportion of EU fishing and energy resources that lie in Scottish waters.
EU membership has been another battleground, with some European leaders saying Scotland would have to leave and apply to rejoin. Spain, facing its own separatist movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country, has been particularly vocal.
However, the new EU commissioner for enlargement, Johannes Hahn, suggested on Thursday there was room for maneuver.
"Let's wait what will be the outcome in Scotland. Let's allow the Scots to decide," he told Austria's ORF radio. "This is also part of our European fabric of values - that those who are affected decide and then the others have to respect that."
A poll released on Wednesday evening showed 53 percent of Scots would vote against a split, against 47 percent intending to opt for independence. The figures from the poll, carried out by Survation for the Daily Record newspaper, excluded 10 percent of voters who said they were still undecided.
The Scotsman editorial, covering the newspaper's first three pages, said that independence would bring too many unknowns, from currency to defense.
"With the choices before us, the conclusion is that we are better together, that Scotland's interests lie not in creating division but in continuing in the union and using its strengths to contribute in our success," it said.
Salmond however, said he was sure Scots would vote for independence next Thursday, despite "the blatant bullying and intimidation" of the British government. (Additional reporting by William Schomberg, Costas Pitas, Kate Holton, Matt Scuffham, Shadia Nasrallah and Karen Rebelo; Editing by Sophie Walker)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/scotland-independence-vote_n_5805494.html?ir=WorldPost
Reuters
Posted: 09/11/2014 1:28 pm EDT
Scotland is due to vote on September 18th in a referendum on Scottish independence and many people in Northern Ireland will be watching closely on its outcome.
By Angus MacSwan and Alistair Smout
EDINBURGH, Sept 11 (Reuters) - The battle for the hearts and heads of the Scottish people intensified on Thursday as two banks said they would shift their registered head offices to London if Scotland voted to break away from the United Kingdom in a referendum next week.
The warning from Edinburgh-based Lloyds and RBS put the independence campaign on the defensive and followed a new poll which showed a slender lead for those wishing to keep the 307-year long union with England.
And the Scotsman newspaper, in a front-page editorial on Thursday, announced its verdict on the choice: "We are better together."
The latest developments heightened the drama and the passions surrounding the historic referendum.
In the past week, polls had shown a surge in support for the independence campaign led by Alex Salmond's Scottish National Party, and it appeared they were on a march to victory in next Thursday's vote.
That prompted Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron and Ed Miliband of the opposition Labor Party to head to Scotland on Wednesday to make emotional appeals for Scots to stay within "Britain's family of nations".
The pro-independence camp says it is time for Scots to rule their own country and build a fairer society without being told what to do by a political elite in London. The campaign for staying together says Scotland is more prosperous and secure within the United Kingdom, and says an independent nation would struggle to be economically viable.
The unanswered questions of what currency Scotland would use and what central bank it would have led to alarm in the corporate world as well as weighing on voters' minds.
Dutch insurer Aegon NV also said on Thursday it would set up a new registered life company in England if Scotland exited the union.
The company said policies for its non-Scottish customers in the UK would continue to be in sterling and that it would support any different currency for Scottish based customers.
Thursday's announcements by Edinburgh-based Lloyds and Royal Bank of Scotland - both part-owned by the British government - were greeted by the "No" campaign as bolstering their position.
Lloyds bank, which is 25 percent-owned by the British government and controls Bank of Scotland, said its contingency plans included setting up "legal entities in England", a move that would not affect its business.
RBS said it would be necessary to re-domicile its holding company. TSB Banking Group, which is part-owned by Lloyds, said it was likely to relocate some operations to England.
Lloyds' headquarters are in London but its registered office is in Edinburgh. RBS senior management is based in London but its registered offices are in Edinburgh. The location of a company's registered office, its legal home, is what dictates its regulatory and tax regime.
RBS Chief Executive Ross McEwan told staff that moving the registered offices did not mean it would cut jobs in Scotland or move operations away, and it would not affect its day-to-day services.
"This is a technical procedure regarding the location of our registered head office. It is not an intention to move operations or jobs," McEwan said in a memo seen by Reuters.
Salmond seized on McEwan's comments to dismiss the significance of the moves. He accused the British government of orchestrating a campaign among corporate leaders to talk negatively about independence.
"I think the people of Scotland have moved beyond these warnings and these scaremongerings," he told a news conference.
John Swinney, finance minister in the SNP-led Scottish government, told the BBC that the banks' announcements were a result of the British government's refusal to agree to a formal currency union with an independent Scotland.
Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has raised questions about currency arrangements in an independent Scotland, saying it would need stockpiles of sterling if it adopted the pound without an agreement with the rest of the United Kingdom.
The thought of the banks' departure caused little heartache in some quarters.
"I would rather be poor and standing on my own two feet, making my decisions about my country, rather than being ripped off by robber barons in Westminster," Daniel Hargreaves, a "Yes" voter from Edinburgh, told Reuters as he rushed to work.
Salmond also repeated his stance that, despite what political leaders in London are now saying, rump United Kingdom would agree to a currency union in the event of a "Yes" victory as it was common sense and would be in their mutual interest.
His confidence does not extend to financial markets, with the pound taking a hit as the possibility of a "Yes" victory strengthened. Investors also fear the effect on Britain of Scotland claiming much of the North Sea oil and gas reserves.
Two of Britain's biggest retailers, John Lewis JLP.UL] and Next also said an independent Scotland could face higher prices in the shops.
Charlie Mayfield, chairman of department store chain John Lewis Partnership, which also owns the Waitrose grocery chain, said it cost more to deliver goods in Scotland due to the longer distances and higher regulatory costs.
Next Chief Executive Simon Wolfson said it would not be difficult for Next to adapt but he would worry that prices and taxes would go up and jobs be lost.
Salmond also said on Thursday he was sure the European Union would welcome independent Scotland as a member, pointing to the substantial proportion of EU fishing and energy resources that lie in Scottish waters.
EU membership has been another battleground, with some European leaders saying Scotland would have to leave and apply to rejoin. Spain, facing its own separatist movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country, has been particularly vocal.
However, the new EU commissioner for enlargement, Johannes Hahn, suggested on Thursday there was room for maneuver.
"Let's wait what will be the outcome in Scotland. Let's allow the Scots to decide," he told Austria's ORF radio. "This is also part of our European fabric of values - that those who are affected decide and then the others have to respect that."
A poll released on Wednesday evening showed 53 percent of Scots would vote against a split, against 47 percent intending to opt for independence. The figures from the poll, carried out by Survation for the Daily Record newspaper, excluded 10 percent of voters who said they were still undecided.
The Scotsman editorial, covering the newspaper's first three pages, said that independence would bring too many unknowns, from currency to defense.
"With the choices before us, the conclusion is that we are better together, that Scotland's interests lie not in creating division but in continuing in the union and using its strengths to contribute in our success," it said.
Salmond however, said he was sure Scots would vote for independence next Thursday, despite "the blatant bullying and intimidation" of the British government. (Additional reporting by William Schomberg, Costas Pitas, Kate Holton, Matt Scuffham, Shadia Nasrallah and Karen Rebelo; Editing by Sophie Walker)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/scotland-independence-vote_n_5805494.html?ir=WorldPost
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Agartha- Admin
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Kaere Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:03 am
I found it very stressful during the Quebec referendums here... waiting to know if your country will be the same next day or not.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Stirky Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:33 pm
I think it will cause a lot of problems in Scotland that people might not of considered, or have been told about. But on the other hand I don't think it'll make much difference for the UK, apart from our flag and hey we might not even be called the UK after!! But yes I do see problems!
I'm with Ags, I hope they vote no! I like Scotland!
I'm with Ags, I hope they vote no! I like Scotland!
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Stirky Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:35 pm
If they vote yes they will have a lot more to do with the EU. I am not a fan of the EU either and have never considered myself European. Not that I am anti Europe, I love Europe, it's just the EU with their legislations that can be a problem.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Rockhopper Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:10 am
They would have some problems if they go independent. They would need their own currency for a start, can't keep using the Quid. To hook into the Euro is fraught with problems too.
Are they going to be a Republic? Or stay a Monarchy? What about Northern Ireland? It's technically part of Scotland. Would it become independent or remain part of the UK?
So many issues -- so little time!
Tim.
Are they going to be a Republic? Or stay a Monarchy? What about Northern Ireland? It's technically part of Scotland. Would it become independent or remain part of the UK?
So many issues -- so little time!
Tim.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Mordae Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:16 am
Lot's of other provinces looking for independence watching out as well.
Personally, I hope they vote yes. While it'd cause some intitial economic disruption, long-term it could work out very well for them. The 'Business as Usual' policies that Westminster have set up are very likely also setting up the next economic shitstorm for the country, so the Scots will likely be better off out of it. Currency-wise they could, potentially, even scrap paper money and work of crypto-currencies instead, and run all of their laws etc via the block-chain.
Vote YES On Scottish Independence – Scotland Finally Has A Chance To Get Free From The British
Personally, I hope they vote yes. While it'd cause some intitial economic disruption, long-term it could work out very well for them. The 'Business as Usual' policies that Westminster have set up are very likely also setting up the next economic shitstorm for the country, so the Scots will likely be better off out of it. Currency-wise they could, potentially, even scrap paper money and work of crypto-currencies instead, and run all of their laws etc via the block-chain.
Vote YES On Scottish Independence – Scotland Finally Has A Chance To Get Free From The British
Last edited by Mordae on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : extra thoughts)
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Rockhopper Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:04 am
Yea Mordman. Westminster is run by a Cabal of Public School Boys. Cameron is a dipshidz of those fancy schools. Mummy and Daddy didn't want him around because it interfered with them making money so he was sent off to Boarding school. Millibrand is the same. Tweedledee and Tweedledum politics again. And the Lib/Dems can't decide what they are!
I can't see the Canny Scots using a cryptocoin for money either. They could do what Ireland did and have their own Scottie Quid.
Tim.
I can't see the Canny Scots using a cryptocoin for money either. They could do what Ireland did and have their own Scottie Quid.
Tim.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Monk (in hiding) Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:13 am
Agartha wrote:I hope they vote for a big NO!
Enough of the English dominance.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Kaere Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:58 am
III wrote:Agartha wrote:I hope they vote for a big NO!
Enough of the English dominance.
Or American dominance, for that matter...
Looks like part of Colorado is looking to separate too. Of course, Texas always seems to have it on the brain as well.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/north-colorado-quebec-scotland-have-company-in-cowboy-country-1.2005411
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Kaere Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:02 am
It would be nice to have more control in parts of our lives... I do see a problem with more localized gov't in that it tends to make a small section quite insulated and separate from anyone else, more of an us vs them mentality. We don't live in a utopia as much as we'd like to say that things would be perfectly lovely... if they were perfectly lovely why did we change to a different system? There must be a better way than creating more division and barriers between people, towns, nations.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Rogue Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:05 am
Western Australia has often talked of seceding from Australia, even had a referendum many years ago. Unsucessful obviously.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Monk (in hiding) Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:10 am
Kaere wrote:III wrote:Agartha wrote:I hope they vote for a big NO!
Enough of the English dominance.
Or American dominance, for that matter...
Looks like part of Colorado is looking to separate too. Of course, Texas always seems to have it on the brain as well.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/north-colorado-quebec-scotland-have-company-in-cowboy-country-1.2005411
You forgot Is-Ra-El!
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Monk (in hiding) Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:11 am
Kaere wrote:It would be nice to have more control in parts of our lives... I do see a problem with more localized gov't in that it tends to make a small section quite insulated and separate from anyone else, more of an us vs them mentality. We don't live in a utopia as much as we'd like to say that things would be perfectly lovely... if they were perfectly lovely why did we change to a different system? There must be a better way than creating more division and barriers between people, towns, nations.
More localized gov't and less federal control!
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Monk (in hiding) Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:12 am
IceWendigo wrote:III wrote:
That is a racist video by a racist meant to fool other racists. The racist concept of race is a vulgar arbitrary fabrication.
To say that "white" men do this and that is a fraud associating people who happen to have a characteristic that can be used as a decoy wedge to divide the population even if they are utterly clueless about what's going on. Divide to conquer is the oldest trick in the book. It is documented for example that the elites in France for example saw wars as a way to both get rid of lower classes individuals of their own nation and to distract them away from rebelling against the elites, some of the elites dont mind sending people to die by the thousand they dont give a crap if those sent as cannon fodder are of the same skin pigmentation or the same nation or the same religion or whatever excuse is used as a pretext to send them to kill and die in the war meat grinder.
We are confronted by elites who fool the masses, but real source of the problem of human civilization imo is not the elite networks and banking mafia, the source is systemic, imo the use of money, hierarchy and secrecy is channeling human development in a way that fosters concentration and abuse of power by elites.
To bad it's the truth, swallow hard.....
Look what 'white man' has done to North and South America within the last 500 years.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Kaere Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:16 am
III wrote:You forgot Is-Ra-El!
No I didn't. Israel has nothing to do with the article I posted.
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Re: Scotland, the Brave
by Monk (in hiding) Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:18 am
Kaere wrote:III wrote:You forgot Is-Ra-El!
No I didn't. Israel has nothing to do with the article I posted.
and this does ->Or American dominance, for that matter...
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