Re: Covid-19 Vaccine updates

[Agartha]

Question: Why has no SARS/MERS vaccine been approved in the past 20 years?

A vaccine has never been made, it's got nothing to do with being approved. Why? Because of what Lion said:

- SARS killed approx. 700 people
- MERS killed approx. 800 people
- Covid19 (so far) has killed 1.33 MILLIONS.
- Sars and Mers were mostly hospital outbreaks. Covid is transmitted in the community. 
- Sars and Mers were easily contained and practically died out on their own.
- Covid is very difficult to contain, despite measures in place. 
- Covid is (at least) 2.5 times more contagious.

Because of the above there has really been no engagement from pharmaceutical companies to make vaccines for SARS and Mers, because there was no need.

[TrueCrazyLion]

It feels to me that the way things have worked out, SARS was like a prototype for COVID-19 when it first appeared: A very rough first attempt at creating a pandemic virus, which was maybe 98% of the way there but lacking the final critical 2% which it needed to really cause mass disruption and destruction: A fine-tuning of its design to make it less lethal than SARS but massively more infectious. And, OMG, that redesign has been effective when it happened. 

I remember having a terrible feeling about SARS when it manifested in the spring of 2003; not just because of what it was but because of what it represented, somehow. There just seemed to be something nasty about it which I could feel but not work out. I was getting towards the end of first year in Uni, and I can remember fearing that my life - which involved a lot of clubbing and partying at that point - might be totally disrupted by all the public places in the city having to close, etc. 
Although it was a false alarm in the end, it really freaked me out and I always had a feeling deep down from then on that we should try to enjoy every moment, and never take our freedom and health for granted.

I think this vaccine is key not just to us being able to get back to normal quickly(ish), but also to us being able to fight Coronaviruses in future too. They’re scary and nasty.

[IceWendigo]

Corona virus are a COMMON virus, this is Not ebola, they are everywhere and seasonal, with lots of variants that diverge mutate all the time, people act like its THE corona. And right Now total mortality is not worse than any year.


And also people think being Exposed to a virus makes us sick , this is FALSE. We are exposed to virus constantly, thats like being exposed to air, even if you "social distance" yourself by 300 km from the nearest human you are exposed to virus, if virus made us sick we would be sick 24/7 365 days a year, virus do not make us sick, its the EXCEPTION.

The US navy tested exposed volunteers to influenza at the time of the so-called spanish flu, None got sick, not one. The most complete population testing for covid19 was held in Iceland, the majority did not even know they had it and most of those that were sick had a "mild" cold.

[Rogue]

Aussies look to be vaccine keen...

Most Australians plan to get vaccinated against the coronavirus once it's available, but new surveys also show hesitancy in the community.

Australian National University analysis released on Friday shows close to three-in-five people would get the jab, while six per cent definitely won't and another seven per cent probably won't.

The survey of 3000 adults in August found females, people living in disadvantaged areas, those with more populist views and stronger religious beliefs were more likely to be hesitant to get vaccinated.

A separate survey of 1000 Australians found the same amount - six per cent - wouldn't get the vaccine.

The Dynata data also shows one in three would get the vaccine immediately after it's available while the same number would wait to speak to their doctor and only take it if recommended.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/australian-national-university-study-shows-most-australians-plan-to-get-virus-vaccine-ng-b881726594z

[IceWendigo]

I hope I'm wrong, I like Australians, the caricature has me imagine them less conformist than that, like crocodile dundee saying "vaccines? Nah, Dont need a vaccine"

[Rogue]

Ice, are you against the vaccine in general, or are you against the vaccine being mandatory?

[IceWendigo]

I am totally against mandatory vaccines and against resticting freedoms of those not vaccinated be it with orwellian health passports or other. In general, Imo, the health benefits are overestimated and health risks vastly underestimated including long term autoimmune diseases that can not be easily linked to which vaccine could be the cause and antibody reactions, plus theres serious conflicts of intere$t pushing vaccines and censorship of safety studies and of disasters in 3rd world countries, add to that the immunity from prosecution that vaccine companies have and I am against vaccines in general, even more so with regards to hepathitis for new born (an aberration imo) and flu vaccines, and even more against corrona vaccines, and even more against a corrona vaccine thats rushed. 

This genetic researcher(below) Alexendra Henrion-Caude  is unlike me for vaccines in general, is specifically worried about covid19 vaccines, 
She says that researchers DID try to develop corrona virus Sars vaccines for years, but there were too many antiboby reaction risks to continue, beyond the antibody risk some of the covid19 vaccines will be using techniques  never tested on a large scale that even experts cant predict the effect(millions of human guinea pigs, thats my take). She is not against covid19 vaccines mind you,  but says that people need to be well informed of the risks to make their decision on whether or not to take it (sorry its french)


note that antibody reactions from vaccines can be deadly and occur long after the shot itself, and Part of covid that damages tissue and kills people just so happens to be antibody reaction , Antiphosholipid syndrome where antibodies destroy the persons cells.

[TrueCrazyLion]

Great news in Scotland today, the Scottish Government has announced plans to begin vaccinating people from the first week in December onwards:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/19/scotland-hopes-to-begin-mass-covid-vaccination-in-early-december

The Army will be on standby to help minimise any logistical issues with distribution of the vaccine, apparently.

Woohoo!!

[Rogue]

Thanks for taking time to reply Ice. I would hope we won't need to go down the track of mandatory vaccination. In saying that though, I fail to see how it wouldn't be a stipulation of overseas travel. I feel certain it will be mandatory for entry into Australia. I don't think we can take the risk seeing our immunity here is likely so low.

Interesting news TCL. The Pfizer vaccine appears to have the most positive results for the elderly so that is probably a good start to protect that group of people. Although many would disagree, and I realise that healthcare workers should have much more protection than they currently have, but I'm a little concerned healthcare workers will become the next level of test subjects of a vaccine that has so far come together rather quickly and still is holds a number of questions going forward.

[IceWendigo]

If you try to prevent entry you may lower your immunity, like the Martians in H G Wells War of the Worlds.

I ll be curious to see if countries with high vaccination rates for covid and flu have higher or lower mortality than those with lower or none. I would like to know what % of real covid deaths (because a lot are fraudulent, having died of other causes) had the flu vaccine, if of the very small % of people that died from covid a high % had had flu vaccines I would not be surprised (antiphospholipid reaction).

[Rogue]

Yes you're right it may keep our immunity low, but it also may mean we don't suffer a major outbreak. Bit of a catch 22.

[Agartha]

Yesterday I was over the moon: Astra Zeneca reported their Oxford vaccine was up to 90% effective. Seeing as it only costs approximately £3 (5 times less than the Pfizer one) and seeing as it could be transported easier than the Pfizer vaccine, made it my favourite, number 1 candidate.
 
Today I don’t feel as happy or positive as AZ had to admit they made an error administering their vaccine: one group received half a dose first, the a full one, efficacy was 90%. The other group received 2 full doses: efficacy 62%. The first group was a mistake, apparently done by the manufacturing company (according to AZ). This clouds all the results, first because there was a mistake which was not admitted immediately. Second, because the group that received the incorrect half dose (the one with good results) was too small to confirm efficacy (only 2000 volunteers, which is nothing).
 
I will have the vaccine when it’s done, but I will only have a vaccine I can fully trust. Right now the Pfizer one seems the best one again, they have been very transparent, they are using up to 30K volunteers and their clinical trials and reports are excellent.
 
I will have the vaccine but only when I am satisfied with their strict protocols and when the EU deems one safe.
 
A bit of trivia on the UK (sorry but I cannot access the same data for other countries):
 
-        The UK has pre-ordered more vaccines (per capita) than any other country so far (5 doses per resident)
-        Those vaccines are from 7 different manufacturers (Astrazeneca, Janssen, Pfizer, Moderna, Valneva, GSK and Novavax).
-        5 of those 7 vaccines are in phase III clinical trials
-        There is a provisional ranking to prioritise vaccine administration: according to that ranking I will be #1 slot, my children will be #10
-        To achieve herd immunity, we’ll need to vaccinate more than 60% of the population. That will take until 2022 most likely.

[TrueCrazyLion]

I just saw this now! 
Great information, Aggie! 

From what you’ve said here, and from my own intuition too, I’m going with the Pfizer vaccine as being the one I trust most, and it’s that one which I want to have(Initially - I’ll be happy to have others too once they’ve been approved via the correct processes).

I’m sure the AstraZeneca vaccine will be good too, once it’s overcome these teething issues and been properly tested and approved.

That’s interesting about the provisional vaccine administration ranking! I’ll need to Google that and check it out, I’m keen to find out where I might be on it.

There’s speculation that the vaccine will be rolled out to everyone in Scotland with a graduated system like that, starting with the highest risk people(Early December) and progressing to the lowest risk(By May). That is speculation though! I can’t remember where I read it but it was only from one source.

Also, I think the Pfizer vaccine has been tested on over 40K people - even better!

[Agartha]

I have the priority ranking for Scotland on a document, it's not final nor official yet (although I'm sure they will follow it). Maybe it is available online now, but I don't know (As soon as it's set in stone I'll let you know). According to that list you, being under 50 and healthy, will be bottom of the list with the rest of the population (same as my kids). 

And there are many vaccines that seem promising, we'll just have to see which one is approved by the EU and the Scottish Government.

[TrueCrazyLion]

I meant to reply sooner but got distracted, LOL...

Wow, advance knowledge of the priority ranking! I feel like I have inside knowledge on key scientific research!

I’d really appreciate that, if you could share this priority ranking when it becomes official - I’d love that!

I hear what you’re saying, that I’m likely to be low down on it, but it’ll be good to know for sure either way(And then I should be able to work out from that how many months it’ll be till I can expect to be vaccinated!).

That would make a big difference if you could do that 

[Agartha]

LOL!! I feel like a secret agent now! 

I'm sure that if I search the internet I'll find the same list I have, on some NHS site... but of course I will let you know, I keep on asking the managers all the time, they are probably fed up with me by now! hahaha

[Rogue]

Fingers crossed guys!

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/uk-to-get-covid-vaccine-next-week/news-story/8e81665c6bcf4699acc5672d4eaf3871

[TrueCrazyLion]

Yep, the UK has now approved the Pfizer vaccine:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-55145696

I’d thought it would’ve needed to already be approved before such widespread plans were made to roll it out, but I guess these are unprecedented times and they call for unprecedented measures, including the order in which things are done!

Glad to see the fightback against this virus gathering momentum!

[Agartha]

I'm glad it is the Pfizer one, it has been the most effective and most transparent throughout trials. 

The UK is only getting 800 k doses next week so I am not sure how they will distribute them... I guess elderly residents in care homes will be first. I am back at work on Friday and I will ask. 

This vaccine shows how important cooperation between countries is:
It was created by Turkish immigrants. In germany. Produced in Belgium.


EDIT: this is now available online for all to see, which is exactly like the list I have, but mine also have on more point at the bottom which says 'Rest of the population' (although mine had 11 levels so something was changed). I am number 2 in the list (however, they were talks of 1 and 2 being prioritised together). 

[Rogue]

What will happen if Frontline workers and carers decline the offer? Will they still be able to work?

[Sponsored content]