Re: The Rise of ISIS

[Kaere]

Hey Hey Star good to see ya mate. Hope the treatment is going well for you.

Why am I having a problem with that Aussie Raid? Seems to be very convenient to me. Stir up with ISIS and Tony sending troops against them and suddenly this raid. Something stinks and it ain't fish!

The US has to do something about ISIS, they created the vacuum that generated the villians.

Tim.

You're not the only one who has come to that conclusion about the Aussie raid. An online friend of mine has said she noticed that whenever certain things are due for discussion in their parliament (unpopular moves, etc), terrorism seems to take over and bumps the issues off the radar.

[Stargate]

Hey Tim, slowly doing better nice to hear from you. Hope all is well.

[Rogue]

Hey Hey Star good to see ya mate. Hope the treatment is going well for you.

Why am I having a problem with that Aussie Raid? Seems to be very convenient to me. Stir up with ISIS and Tony sending troops against them and suddenly this raid. Something stinks and it ain't fish!

The US has to do something about ISIS, they created the vacuum that generated the villians.

Tim.

You're not the only one who has come to that conclusion about the Aussie raid. An online friend of mine has said she noticed that whenever certain things are due for discussion in  their parliament (unpopular moves, etc), terrorism seems to take over and bumps the issues off the radar.

The politics of fear, very powerful! The Bali bombing (Terrorists) was a good one for a while. The invasion of Asylum Seekers (Terrorists) was the last one they used for years until they couldn't use it anymore. This one will do them nicely I'm sure.

[Monk (in hiding)]

All we are saying, is give peace a chance.

[Stirky]

If everybody could give peace a chance, the world would be a much much better place. Just seems some people are intent on the violence and war!

[Monk (in hiding)]

If everybody could give peace a chance, the world would be a much much better place. Just seems some people are intent on the violence and war!

The some people are the ones in power, the EL-ites. They got their way in Scotland. Figures........ lsol

[Stirky]

Yes, I know the 'some' people are the ones that have the power to do what they like. Shame the 'some' people have to be like this.

Scotland is a whole different story.

[Rogue]

Peace? Lovely thought, but we're a very long way from that

[Stirky]

Never get there, not in this dimension or on this planet

[Rogue]

Sadly, I think that there is the truth.

[Monk (in hiding)]

Peace? Lovely thought, but we're a very long way from that

How about changing we're to self. That's a start, eh?

[Rogue]

Thats all we can do.

[Monk (in hiding)]

Thats all we can do.

we to you. Why must you always talk third party? lsol

[Rogue]

Because I live as best I can but I see YOU coming and continually bagging out everyone. YOU show some peace.

[Monk (in hiding)]

Because I live as best I can but I see YOU coming and continually bagging out everyone. YOU show some peace.

Humbug, toughen up mate.

It's bagging or group think. lsol

[IceWendigo]

Peace and the end of WAR

know the 'some' people are the ones that have the power to do what they like. Shame the 'some' people have to be like this.

Never get there, not in this dimension or on this planet

I disagree, admittedly with an effort of optimism, let me share my train of thought (though I must simplify and cut corners):

Too challenging: Primitive humans, never ever controlled fire for thousands of years, until they observed, figured it out, tried and eventually could. Humans never ever flew in constructions they built, that was totally impossible and inconceivable until they observed, tested, figured it out, made imperfect prototypes and corrected and improved them.

War will never stop by saying "lets stop wars". War can be overcome when humans understand war and make fundamental social changes.

1- War has been around for a very long time because aspects of our social environment that are key for it have been around for a very long time too.

2- What makes it difficult to see a solution is that
2.1 we take the underlying reasons as given and normal, as things that should not be changed, we dont "see" them has problems because we are used to it, they have been around for aeons, just like Slavery could have been perceived as normal in a society used to it or people may have thought "Of course women shouldn't vote what an absurd idea" for people used to patriarchy for generations.
2.2 The other difficulty is War is highly associated with lies, deceit and secrets. What everyone is reading in common history books and in the news are in great part lies or factoids (that though true conceal motivations and pertinent facts), this makes it very difficult to understand what's really going on.


3- War occur because people in power
3.1 gain from it (power or resources or strategic advantages) EVEN WHEN THEY LOOSE*(some Elites have started wars for the purpose of killing their own population or destroying the current incarnation of government or groups and even negotiated with enemies agreeing on various groups or assets that should be eliminated or not eliminated.) and/or prevent rivals from gaining power,
and because
3.2 they are able to control/influence groups of people and institutions and control the information(propaganda, secrets, warmongering/fear-mongering/hate-mongering/dehumanizing).


So far here's my conclusion from observation that is work in progress:

The people that start wars, imo, derive their power from the control of money(or resources like food or energy), the control of hierarchies (groups of people that obey orders from top down and are dependant on superiors for information and resources[pay]), and the control of information(secrets, propaganda).

They also use weapons and violence, but this is usually indirect and they often use the 3 levers (money,hierarchy,secret/information) to control those that do the violence, the Warlord/King/Mafia Boss/Dictator/Shadow Banker seldom does the dirty job/killing himself but often has a lackey/henchmen/soldier/police do it, which is usually controlled by a synergy/mixture of 1-money/job/bribe/food, 2-hierarchy/chain-of-command/closed-group-affiliation, and 3-secrecy/manipulation of information/indoctrination, (and potential intimidation of violence by others, which is in a way circular).

I think that if and when humans eliminate or fundamentally change; money, hierarchy and secrecy, the ability to control and fool masses of people would be diminished, and peace could be within reach, like the first attempts at human flight.

[IceWendigo]

How do we do that? I dont know, but I think we need to undermine or diminish the scope of the control the few have over money, hierarchy and secrecy.

Money:
1- Oppose convergence of money(Euro) and favour local currencies that are actually issued without interests for the benefit of the many (instead of the interests of the Few)
2- Reduce people's dependency on Jobs and on money, such as combining free services/sharing etc with a form of Base Income (dont like that for other reasons and it might not work in practice, but the intent is ok) and facilitating volunteer/participatory production.

Hierarchy:
1- Oppose convergence/fusion/acquisitions of corporations,
2-oppose top down federations and unions and supranational authorities
3- Develop democratic and cooperative mechanisms in organisations and develop alternatives to hierarchic government agencies and corporations.

Secrecy:
Ban secrecy in public and gov activity, and favour organizations that are transparent
Criminalize anti-public interest corporate secrecy (if you hide the fact that your corporation has a leak that kills children with lucemia, you should go to jail)
Protect whistleblowers foreign and domestic

An important means to gain ground on the hierarchy and secrecy fronts, and which might be a required first step, is to create democracies with some Athenian style mechanisms, so that the people are more in control (instead of less to not at all) this can start at local town levels and in groups, then developed on state/regional levels.

[Monk (in hiding)]

Money......it's a gas.......

[Mordae]

That's pretty well summed up Ice

[Kaere]

I missed all that! I have some reading to do

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