Re: The Rise of ISIS

[Lenzabi]

And some of what Ice said was also things Marx was considering in his philosophy. Thanks though to Russia and China and their satellite states, we equate "Communism" with totalitarianism, even though it was Mis labeled Fascism parading as Communism, Stalin took over and thought to himself "It' good to be the king!" in essence, but never moved to vouchers, and worker self rule without a boss over their heads, and true communism per Marx would be such as no one could exploit others for their own personal gain.

Mao also did the Stalin move.

No nation called by us as "Communist" ever got themselves to actual socialism, or communism.

Per Marx:  

Communism

Some time after socialism is established society leaps forward, and everyone has plenty of personal possessions, but no one can exploit another person for private gain through the ownership of vast monopolies, and so forth. Classes are thus abolished, and class society ended. Communism will have spread across the world and be worldwide. Eventually the state will "wither away" and become obsolete, as people administer their own lives without the need for governments or laws. Thus, stateless communism or pure communism, which may be considered the Sixth Stage, is established, which has the following features:

   Statelessness: there are no governments, laws, or nations any more.
   Classlessness: all social classes disappear, everyone works for everyone else.
   Propertylessness: there is no money or private property, all goods are free to be consumed by anyone who needs them.

In The Communist Manifesto Marx describes communism as:
“ When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.[6] ”

Few applications of historical materialism, the philosophical system used by Marxism to explain the past progressions of human society and predict the nature of communism, account for a stage beyond communism, but Marx suggests that what has ended is only the "prehistory" [9] of human society; now, for the first time, humankind will no longer be at the mercy of productive forces (e.g. the free market) which act independently of their control. Instead human beings can plan for the needs of society, inclusively, democratically, by the vast majority, who now own and control the means of production collectively. By implication, then, only now does the real history of human society begin.

From:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_history

That was part of Marx's philosophy of the human condition, we now see that we have something more akin to Capitalism's mutant step-child ruling the world and that Marx was considering a Humanity that shed off the shackles of emotions such as Greed, and power mongering. All very much placing Humanity in the path of self destruction in spite of folks recognizing the problems, BUT as long as people believe that the have a chance to get the lifestyle of the Rich and Famous, they will allow the boat to go unrocked. Just so long as they have their trinkets and toys of which "success" is tagged to, and they get to stay comfy and warm, they do not struggle as much as they might against such a system as we have now as Human herd or pack instinct is that safety comes from stability alone.

What we have now it is the prosperity for the few and the rest can struggle approach, instead of the middle out economy we have trickle down which has failed to do any good for the majority of people since it got started in 1980.

here is what we have presently

Capitalism

Marx pays special attention to this stage in human development. The bulk of his work is devoted to exploring the mechanisms of capitalism, which in western society classically arose "red in tooth and claw" from feudal society in a revolutionary movement.

Capitalism may be considered the Fourth Stage in the sequence. It appears after the bourgeois revolution when the capitalists (or their merchant predecessors) overthrow the feudal system. Capitalism is categorized by the following:

   Market economy: In capitalism, the entire economy is guided by market forces. Supporters of laissez faire economics argue that there should be little or no intervention from the government under capitalism. Marxists, however, such as Lenin in his Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, argue that the capitalist government is a powerful instrument for the furtherance of capitalism and the capitalist nation-state, particularly in the conquest of markets abroad.
   Private property: The means of production are no longer in the hands of the monarchy and its nobles, but rather they are controlled by the capitalists. The capitalists control the means of production through commercial enterprises (such as corporations) which aim to maximize profit.
   Parliamentary democracy: The capitalists tend to govern through an elected centralized parliament or congress, rather than under an autocracy. Capitalist (bourgeois) democracy, although it may be extended to the whole population, does not necessarily lead to universal suffrage. Historically it has excluded (by force, segregation, legislation or other means) sections of the population such as women, slaves, ex-slaves, people of color or those on low income. The government acts on behalf of, and is controlled by, the capitalists through various methods.
   Wages: In capitalism, workers are rewarded according to their contract with their employer. Power elites propagate the illusion that market forces mean wages converge to an equilibrium at which workers are paid for precisely the value of their services. In reality workers are paid less than the value of their productivity — the difference forming profit for the employer. In this sense all paid employment is exploitation and the worker is "alienated" from their work. Insofar as the profit-motive drives the market, it is impossible for workers to be paid for the full value of their labour, as all employers will act in the same manner.
   Imperialism: Wealthy countries seek to dominate poorer countries in order to gain access to raw materials and to provide captive markets for finished products. This is done directly through war, the threat of war, or the export of capital. The capitalist's control over the state can play an essential part in the development of capitalism, to the extent the state directs warfare and other foreign intervention.
   Financial institutions: Banks and capital markets such as stock exchanges direct unused capital to where it is needed. They reduce barriers to entry in all markets, especially to the poor; it is in this way that banks dramatically improve class mobility.
   Monopolistic tendencies: The natural, unrestrained market forces will create monopolies from the most successful commercial entities.

In capitalism, the profit motive rules and people, freed from serfdom, work for the capitalists for wages. The capitalist class are free to spread their laissez faire practices around the world. In the capitalist-controlled parliament, laws are made to protect wealth.

But according to Marx, capitalism, like slave society and feudalism, also has critical failings — inner contradictions which will lead to its downfall. The working class, to which the capitalist class gave birth in order to produce commodities and profits, is the "grave digger" of capitalism. The worker is not paid the full value of what he or she produces. The rest is surplus value — the capitalist's profit, which Marx calls the "unpaid labour of the working class." The capitalists are forced by competition to attempt to drive down the wages of the working class to increase their profits, and this creates conflict between the classes, and gives rise to the development of class consciousness in the working class. The working class, through trade union and other struggles, becomes conscious of itself as an exploited class.

In the view of classical Marxism, the struggles of the working class against the attacks of the capitalist class lead the working class to establish its own collective control over production — the basis of socialist society. Marx believed that capitalism always leads to monopolies and leads the people to poverty; yet the fewer the restrictions on the free market, (e.g. from the state and trade unions) the sooner it finds itself in crisis. Marx is rather vague in his explanation of how the working class will come to consciousness.
Socialism

Of course, as the society of Marx time was a bit simpler than now, but we are seeing these points with the economic inequality.

Yes, consciousness and waking up to the facts that we are in a mess is happening event to those who seem determined to stay asleep and let things be as their safety/comfort/warmth are now threatened, the old adage of graduate high school and you can work anywhere is gone, and the college kids, the 20 somethings seem to have the idea that as soon as they get out of school with their education massive debts of 50k to 100k or so that they will all get 100K a year jobs straight out of school even in this crippled economy we have here in the states. And that the Media is owned and controlled by corporate masters who merely wish for clock punching, button pushing or, burger flipping drones,,,,well introspection is no good for that simplistic a culture.

[Rockhopper]

Quite right Len. There has never been a true Communist country anywhere in the world ever. They ones referred to are/were a brand of Fascism. Some haven't changed either, just re-named it.

We have a PM who is a real Psychopath, I'm not to only one to notice that. Psychopaths are usually very intelligent but have no conscience, so they have no empathy for anyone. Their friendliness and attitude is learned.

Milton Friedman should have been strangled at birth and saved us a lot of misery. The man was a disease on society.

There is nothing new in politics or economics -- it's all been done before. The Economic system we have now is just the same as the Victorian one of Dicken's time. There are just a small safety net that's all.

Tim.

[Lenzabi]

Quite right Len. There has never been a true Communist country anywhere in the world ever. They ones referred to are/were a brand of Fascism. Some haven't changed either, just re-named it.

We have a PM who is a real Psychopath, I'm not to only one to notice that. Psychopaths are usually very intelligent but have no conscience, so they have no empathy for anyone. Their friendliness and attitude is learned.

Milton Friedman should have been strangled at birth and saved us a lot of misery. The man was a disease on society.

There is nothing new in politics or economics -- it's all been done before. The Economic system we have now is just the same as the Victorian one of Dicken's time. There are just a small safety net that's all.

Tim.

And the psychos desire to shrink it further when a bigger one is needed sorely here especially.

[Rogue]

This Is How ISIS Makes $3 Million A Day
The Huffington Post | By Eline Gordts

Posted: 09/22/2014 4:13 pm EDT

U.S. intelligence officials revealed last week that they believe the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, is reaping as much as $3 million a day in revenue, making it one of the wealthiest terrorist groups in history.

The group desperately needs the money, for as one U.S. official recently told NBC: "Running a caliphate is not cheap." ISIS needs to pay, arm and feed its brigades. The group also rewards the families of killed militants with a pension, and it needs to cover the costs of governing the territory it has captured.

This is where the Islamic State is getting its money from:

1. WEALTHY DONORS

Just like other radical militant groups fighting in Syria, the Islamic State initially relied largely on cash gifts from wealthy sympathizers who were determined to support Sunni fighters in their revolt against Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Much of the fundraising for Syria's extremist groups occurs in the Arab Gulf states, where wealthy private donors raise millions to hand over to Islamist fighters at the Turkey-Syria border. The governments of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait also covertly provide millions in aid to radical Sunni groups fighting Assad.

Michael Stephens, director of the Royal United Services Institute in Qatar, recently told the BBC that unlike some private donors who directly fund the Islamic State, the Gulf governments instead support other groups such as the Nusra front, Liwa al-Tawhid, Ahrar al-Sham and Jaish al-Isla. However, some of those groups' fighters have joined the Islamic State in recent months and some have even been incorporated into the group -- meaning that money from the Gulf states is indirectly given to the Islamic State. Yet Stephens also said that these donations now only make up a tiny percentage of the Islamic State's funding. The militants collect most of their revenue from the territory they control.

2. LOOTING

Since it launched a massive offensive in Iraq in June, the Islamic State has managed to capture a stretch of territory in Iraq and Syria that's about the size of the U.K. The militants were able to steal millions of dollars in cash and other materials from banks and military installations during its campaign, according to the Associated Press.

"It's cash-raising activities resemble those of a mafia-like organization," a U.S. intelligence official told the AP last week. "They are well-organized, systematic and enforced through intimidation and violence."

3. SMUGGLING AND TAXES

The Islamic State also levies taxes in the areas it conquers. The Council on Foreign Relations estimates that the group was netting more than $8 million a month in taxes from small and large businesses even before capturing Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, in June.

The group is also believed to have earned millions of dollars from illegally trading antiquities. The Guardian reported in June that the Islamic State had made at least $36 million in one particular Syrian region by selling items that were up to 8,000 years old. In an op-ed for The New York Times, Amr al-Azm, Salam al-Kuntar and Brian Daniels wrote that the militants are mainly profiting from the trade by allowing locals to dig up materials at excavation sites and collect taxes on the profits.

4. OIL

Oil appears to be the largest source of income for the Islamic State today. The militants pump crude oil from about a dozen oil fields they have captured in Syria and Iraq. They either sell the crude oil directly or send it to small refineries to produce low-quality fuels. It is then transported via decades-old smuggling routes over the border and sold at low prices on the black market in Turkey and in smaller volumes to the Syrian regime.

Luay al-Khatteeb, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center in Qatar, told The New York Times that the Islamic State's territory currently produces between 25,000 and 40,000 barrels of oil a day, which can bring in about $1.2 million on the black market.

5. KIDNAPPINGS AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING

The Islamic State is also believed to have made millions from human trafficking and ransom extortion. Al-Khatteeb told the Associated Press that the group is selling some women and children it kidnapped as slaves.

The militants have also brought in millions in ransom paid by the relatives and governments of some hostages. While the U.S. and Britain have publicly said they refuse to pay for the release of their citizens, several European governments have paid millions to captors. U.S. officials recently told NBC that they believe some European countries have paid seven-figure ransoms.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/22/isis-funding_n_5850286.html

[IceWendigo]

I am very sceptical, the media have a habit of lying, specially when its to prop up the next enemy to be scared of and to make a case for military intervention.

Islamic State's territory currently produces between 25,000 and 40,000 barrels of oil a day

They are in a  war zone surrounded by NATO bases and they want us to believe they are smuggling over 25 THOUSAND barrels a DAY! hum

[Monk (in hiding)]

Yeah, don't listen to the Blowjob Post. lsol

[Rogue]

Many of the oil refineries appear to have been bombed today.

[IceWendigo]

Many of the oil refineries appear to have been bombed today.

Thanks Rogue I will try to look up this angle.

Heres another piece of he puzzle point of view that might be interesting

[Rogue]

The wealth reduces?

United States air strikes target IS-controlled oil refineries
SEPTEMBER 26, 2014 12:32PM

FOR the first time since the United States and five Arab countries started bombing positions of the Islamic State group in Syria, oil installations under control of the militants were targeted overnight and early on Thursday.

Here is a look at the oil in the hands if the Islamic State group, which has overrun several large oil fields in Syria and a smaller one in Iraq.


HOW MANY OIL FIELDS DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE GROUP CONTROL AND HOW DOES IT SELL THE OIL?
The group controls as many as 11 oil fields in both Syria and Iraq, analysts say. It is selling oil and other goods through generations-old smuggling networks under the very noses of the Kurdish regional government in northern Iraq as well as authorities in Turkey and Jordan.

Last year, the Islamic State group launched wide offensives in oil-rich areas in eastern Syria and was able to gain control of virtually all major oil fields, including the Omar oil field, Syria’s largest, with a capacity to produce 75,000 barrels a day. On the Iraqi side of the border, the group controls small fields in the central province of Salahuddin and the eastern Diyala province, including the Ajeel and Himrin fields.


HOW MUCH DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE GROUP SELL ITS OIL FOR?
The militants sell the smuggled oil at discount prices —$25 to $60 for a barrel of oil that normally fetches more than $100 — but their total profits from oil exceed $3 million a day, according to Luay al-Khatteeb, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Doha Center in Qatar.

The group’s reliance on oil as its main source of revenue could easily be disrupted by the U.S.-led coalition’s air strikes.


HOW MANY INSTALLATIONS WERE ATTACKED ON THURSDAY AND WHAT WAS THE DAMAGE?
At least four oil installations and three oil fields were hit around the town of Mayadeen in the eastern province of Deir el-Zour, according to the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights and two local activist groups. A third activist group loyal to the militants confirmed the reports. It wasn’t immediately clear how important the installations and the fields were.

DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE GROUP CONTROL ANY REFINERIES?
All the major refineries in Iraq and Syria are under government control but the Islamic State extremists control one small refinery in Iraq, the Gayara refinery in the Mosul area. Syria’s two main refineries are in the central city of Homs and the coastal town of Banias. People in areas under Islamic State control use primitive and dangerous ways to refine oil.

WHEN DID THE MILITANT GROUP CAPTURE THE OIL FIELDS IN SYRIA AND IRAQ?
In Iraq, the group captured the oil fields after its offensive in June, during which it overrun large parts of northern, central and western regions of the country. In Syria, rebels have been seizing fields since late 2012, a year after the country’s crisis began. Over the past year, the Islamic State group has taken control of most of the country’s oil fields.

WHAT WAS SYRIA’S OIL PRODUCTION BEFORE THE CRISIS AND WAS THE GOVERNMENT ABLE TO EXPORT OIL AFTER THE CRISIS BEGAN?
The U.S. and European Union banned Syrian oil exports in 2011, depriving Syria of its main European customers. After that, exports came practically to a halt and the constantly dropping production was diverted to domestic needs.

Before the uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad’s government began in March 2011, the oil sector was a pillar of Syria’s economy, with the country producing about 380,000 barrels a day and exports — mostly to Europe — bringing in more than $3 billion in 2010. Oil revenues provided around a quarter of the funds for the government budget.
http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/united-states-air-strikes-target-iscontrolled-oil-refineries/story-fnh81ifq-1227071344146

[Rogue]

Heres another piece of he puzzle point of view that might be interesting

Interesting view right there.

[Lenzabi]

I do keep in mind that RT is as much a Propaganda outlet as any western media, need a truly neutral news media place that has no interest in either the US or the Russian view.

BUT the Military Industrial Complex needs wars to feed so heavily at the government trough. The MIC has completely parasitize America, look at the top big 11 spenders of military in the world, and stack them, America spends double their combined military spending, why so high when we have people needing help staying afloat due to jobs lost, food short, roads and other infrastructure to be repaired and built, rural areas still w/o internet?

Because of how powerfully the and BIG Corporates suck it all up and then they did away with taxing the wealthiest as they used to before Reagan took office, so less money coming in to spend, yet most goes to Military/Big Oil, etc/Foreign aid.

And w/o a boogyman, there is less logical excuses for this behavior. ISIS is of course our new boogyman

[Stargate]

And Yemeno

Tim.

Tim although it might sound far fetched, ISOS cold be also funded by Russia and China, the waters in the middle east are very murky at the moment. All lines are blurred. The US is doing what it has to do with it,s eyes closed and the Arab coalition is more corrupt than the US. InterestIng combination.

[Mordae]

It could be Star, although originally in was funded by the Saudi's and US according to an article in the Atlantic (link can be found in the Terrorists and Blowback thread), and ISIS has also threatened to move into Chechnya in responce to Russian support of Assad.

You are spot on in that the US is reponding with its eyes closed though.

[Rockhopper]

Yep. I like the "Coalition" but. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE and Qatar. All are absolute monarchies!!

And furthermore they are Sunni too.

Tim.

[Mordae]

Yeah, but now ISIL are cutting their lunch by selling cheap oil under the counter. Business is business, after all

[Rockhopper]

Yeah, but now ISIL are cutting their lunch by selling cheap oil under the counter.  Business is business, after all

Yep ain't Capitalism grand!

http://www.aljazeera.com has some interesting takes on the deals!

Tim.

[Stargate]

Yeah, but now ISIL are cutting their lunch by selling cheap oil under the counter.  Business is business, after all

Yep ain't Capitalism grand!

http://www.aljazeera.com has some interesting takes on the deals!

Tim.

Tim, I cannot see how ISIS can be anything other than a way of getting to Iran. The truth is they are made up of so many fuiding factions that even if they were successful governance would be extremely difficult. They are also funded by so many questionable sourses that it would be difficult to define a winner

[Rockhopper]

Personally I feel that ISIS id just a construct to feed the fear factor.

The villians are just a rag-tag bunch of nutters with no clear leader. They talk of a Caliphate without a Caliph! Most of their followers are just dis-illusioned Sunni.

I listened to Benny Wiesneski/Netanyahu rabbit on about how Hamas is in league with them and when he said that I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Hamas is Shia!, ISIS is SUNNI, BENNY!! They hate each other with a passion!

The Fear Factor is in full swing about ISIS. They are just a small group of idiots riding around the desert in a few pick-up trucks and a few armoured vehicles. They won't even use their armoured vehicles now because if they appear out in sight they will be whacked by missiles.

Tim.

[Lenzabi]

Aye Rock, sadly the MIPC needs to justify why money that could be spent to improve lives is instead spent on the things to destroy life and line greedy pockets, and fear helps them keep it that way.

[Rockhopper]

Yep Len. Notice how those nasty, shadowy organisations are morphing into orgs. that are more nasty and shadowy!

First there was al Quaida, which morphed into FSA (far worse!), which morphed into ISIL/ISIS (worse still!) and now we have Khorasan (even worser!). When will it all end I am pondering!

Tim.

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